05 grand caravan 3.3L keeps burning up a/c clutch

Discussion in 'Domestics' started by KrazyK-nampa, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Yes this is #6 new Murray compressor. Clutch is new with compressor. First (o.e) compressor locked internally. Changed all but evaporator. Now keeps toasting clutches. I have had issues with Murray b4 but this is outrageous. (personally i think Murray is CRAP, but thats another subject) longest living clutch so far was #3 which ran for roughly 3 months and abt.1600 miles (coincidentally winter months where only defrost engaged clutch). Clutch has 3.7ohms resistance cold.

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  2. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    A couple more pics trying to show rubber debris in clutch[​IMG][​IMG]

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  3. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    About installing a relay....if a lack of current (which is different than mere voltage)...

    ...if a lack of current occurs at some point (may well be an intermittent condition)...

    ...you can eliminate lack of current as a cause for inadequate clutch clamping power by installing a relay that uses a dependable power and ground connection for the LOAD circuit. The original "wires to the compressor" are used to operate the coil of the relay.

    Yes, I said "dependable power and ground connection", which means you want to be doggone sure your relay LOAD circuit will not also have a problem due to a lack of current.
     
  4. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    Another thought...if the "rubber spring" is too stiff, it might reduce clutch clamping force. Set air gap to minimum.

    And if the clutch plates are just too slippery due to metallurgy alloys, well...Murray, you've screwed us again. Call some other stores (Orielly?) to see if they have had problems with that model number.
     
  5. Mobile Dan

    Mobile Dan wrench

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    All those compressors...too much oil in the system would give us different symptoms, I guess?
     
  6. kev2

    kev2 wrench

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    This is what I call thinking out loud:

    I was thinking As Dan mentioned - too much oil, maybe 'slugging' is that what its called?
    I am sure you run it before releasing it not just idling in the shop but a drive.
    BUT I would suspect the operator would feel something. The changing drag or hear it if belt slipped even a CEL if pressure spiked up - something.

    PS: I did not ask - front AC or front and rear?

    A companion site to BAT specific to AC - might want to give them a shout, maybe someone there will recognize this failure.
    http://www.autoacforum.com/
     
  7. jd

    jd Hero Member

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    In line with slugging oil... What is the High Side Pressure? Pretty sure this new a vehicle would have some kind of High Pressure Cutoff. Just thought that being either charged too high or part of its cooling not working could drive the system into crazy high head pressure and overload the clutch.

    Years back, I replaced a FWD Buick Century compressor. Would NOT COOL. It was a Murray, or Everco, one of those cut rate parts. Was tagged as having the correct oil charge and I didn't check it. Turned out it was full to the gills. Now I always drain, measure, and adjust as needed.

    Anyhow, with all that oil, the compressor did not seem to bog down. Just wouldn't cool.

    Next, I retrofitted to R134A (yes, we had that car a long time. Wife's mother's then wife's then daughter's! Got her through college) Anyhow, that compressor would overheat and cut the thermal switch in the back off. This was a GM DA/HT-6 with switch cavities in the back.

    I traced that problem to the condenser not getting enough air from the OEM puller fan. Added a 16" pusher and the A/C worked well. What I've seen with 134A, is it's fickle on the high side to an overcharge.
     
  8. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Front and rear a/c, pressures have always been normal never had spike on high side. I always drain new compressors and refill dont trust mixing oils

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  9. kev2

    kev2 wrench

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    If the compressor was locking, slugging or high pressure issues - I gotta think there would be a sensation, a code, or a gauge reading.

    Another thought is its slipping itself to destruction due to weak clutch pull in or slipping.... And why does it not show failure in shop.

    What changes down the road.....
    Can you command both fans on and watch clutch under those conditions.... maybe watching for an amp or voltage drop when charging system loaded ....
     
  10. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Ok, took jd's advice and wired in a relay, got all back together. On test found rad/condensor fan #1 had bad connection causing high side to spike to 350 psi. Got fan to kick on and brought high side pressure back down to 200-220ish.

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  11. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    So, does the too-high pressure switch work? What pressure is it supposed to activate at?
     
  12. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Ok, now we got numbers, now we can get somewhere. Kick off/closing should be @ 400psi.

    Here is a chart for this soccer mom van. Screenshot (89).png
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  13. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    This is telling you something. You can have a bad connection, but still have proper voltage, but no knowing what amps will go through the bad connection, hence most likely not pulling enough amps to properly engage the clutch, hence causing slipping and burnt clutches. Make sense?

    Would have been nice to know amp draw of said 6 clutches before you found the bad connection, but that does not mean the PCM is seeing that and code.

    Can you isolate ground wire of clutch which should be BK wire to ground point G101? Then isolate splice S106 wire BK/GY. Could have a choke point there. The DB/YL is easy enough, you checked that with a new relay setup as advised by JD. But how is your ground path?

    I think Kev2 posted this wiring, but here it is again if you didn't get that.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  14. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Most reasons I know of multiple clutches failing is either lock-up, or poor amp draw causing slippage.
     
  15. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Kev2 confirms what I know already. His words. And mine mimic.
     

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