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2002 Ford E-Series Van A/C Always Defrost

  1. Please fill out the following to ask a question.

    MAKE: Ford
    MODEL: E-450
    YEAR
    : 2002
    MILES:40,000
    ENGINE
    : 6.8 V10
    DESCRIBE ISSUE.... A/C has three knobs. Fan Speed, Temperature, and Mode, including OFF. In any Mode but OFF, the A/C cools according to Fan Speed and Temperature knob settings, but air flow is always through Defrost Vents. I know Defrost is Default, the mode you get when there's no vacuum or the Mode valve fails.
    I've found the vacuum supply line under the hood. There's vacuum to the connection where the tubing goes into the HVAC cabinet, engine compartment side. I need to get the "trim," "bezel" or whatever it's called, off to inspect the Mode valve/switch assembly. It runs from the left A/C vent, then Instrument Cluster, then a center vent, the HVAC controls (over the radio) then another center vent. The two center vents are above the engine doghouse. HOW does it come off? Two screws above the instrument cluster, remove headlight knob and nut, trim should pry/pull out. Right? But doesn't budge. What am I missing?

    I have the Electrical and the Vacuum Diagrams. Vacuum shows a Reserve Tank, but where is it? With vacuum TO the HVAC cabinet, and no hissing inside the cabin, I think all I need is a Switch/Valve. I think the Valve will look like a Switch but with plastic vacuum tubing instead of wires...

    THANKS!!! /s/jd
     
  2. [​IMG] [​IMG] If you can't reach it through the top panel, give the front panel a manly tug and see if it will budge. Be sure to yell "Ford" just before you yank it. Or just pry behind it a little at a time with a trim tool.
     
  3. [​IMG]
    REMOVAL
    1. Remove the evaporator core housing assembly.


    [​IMG]
    Zoom and Print Options
    [​IMG]


    2. Remove the vacuum reservoir tank.
    1 Remove the screw.
    2 Drill out the heat stake.
    3 Remove the vacuum reservoir tank.
     
  4. Will try that upper access panel, then some prying, pulling, yelling. Only "FORD" huh. Hopefully nothing worse.

    Will pray I don't get involved in trying to access the Vacuum Canister!!!

    THANKS!!!
     
  5. For bezel removement, I use this tool. mTE4heMUCtE_Gvj6POo05UQ.jpg
     
  6. Screenshot (62).png Don't forget these!! Screenshot (61).png
     
  7. Looks like Pry I Must. Hopefully I won't need to dig all its guts out. The pic of the Vacuum Harness Connector shows what I expect to find on the back of the "switch" that I suspect is bad.
     
  8. I'm IN - Behind the Dash Bezel that the HVAC Panel of Three Switches lurks. I quit because of darkness, will have to remove the entire Bezel to gain any worthwhile access. Two screws up into the Dash above the Instrument Cluster, Headlight Knob and Screw-In Bezel (nut) they Pry and Pray. WOW it's tight.
    Thought it'd come out as a flat panel but it turns out the Vent Deflectors, Radio, Lighter, and Power Outlet come off with it. Maybe Radio's attached to Bezel not Dash because it's aftermarket, mounted in a slip-in then bend-tabs "Mounting Can"
    Hoped I'd see a connector off or disturb something that'd get it back to selecting modes but no joy. Started it up and air still comes only from Defrost Vents.
    Case pends....
     
  9. Damn!!
    Have you checked for stripped gears or jammed motors or vacuum leaks?? If all is ok, could you post BCM codes if there are any?
     
  10.  
  11. Damn!! Sums up the current situation!! From the Engine, a Red Vacuum Hose connects to a Black Vacuum Hose (actually plastic tubing) Black disappears through Firewall near the Blower Cage. I got a diagram that says Black is Supply to the back of the Mode Select Switch (actually a Valve). Outputs from the Select Valve to the Servos are Red, White, Blue, Yellow.
    I got the rest of the Bezel off and finally got the Vacuum Hose Connector off the back of the Select Valve. Two 10mm speed nuts... Started engine. NO, Zero, Zip, Nada Vacuum on Black or any of the other Hose Terminals.
    So, Vacuum leaves the Engine and goes away somewhere between Engine and Select Valve. It seems there's Red-to-Black under the hood, then (where?) a Check Valve, then a Tee to a Vacuum Tank and on to the Select Valve.
    Are some of the diagrams above telling us the Check Valve, Tee, and Tank are buried in the HVAC cabinet somewhere?
    As stated above, Damn!!
     
  12. When the bezel is removed can you keep the select valve connected and listen for a vacuum hissing sound anywhere?? However, if you state there is no vacuum at selector valve, look elsewhere. Problem is probably on one of the vac supply lines.

    Mobile Dan, bless him, provided a diagram of the vac tank. This reminds me of a cruise control that wont hold vacuum cuz the tank maybe pierced/ruptured or whatever english word I am trying to find. Lol!! This is in reply #3 of this thread. You must ascertain vacuum at that switch for proper operation of vents.

    Trace the vacuum lines and look for cracks. There can't be that many. Over time, these become brittle and crack. Sometimes, someone goes in the engine bay and cracks one without knowing when changing plugs. or something close to the firewall. The leaks are small so drive-ability is not affected sometimes. Do you notice a idle issue? Up and down?
    Confirm vacuum again there and trace back lines to mode vac switch. And don't forget to check the vac tank. If no vac, then is HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.
     
  13. Again, trace those vac lines there. I am confident you will find it and have an epiphany or an aha moment!!;) You seem to have skills, and plz post a fixed or :beer:;):bat:when you get her done. All the best.

    Nickb2

    Untitled-3.jpg
     
  14. The way I read the diagram I found, black is what you need to the check valve. There is only one vac line which provides to this unit, the back one. After that, it is the selector that does the rest.

    If that is ok, move on to vac tank, if that is ok, then move on to connector 7 of diagram above. If vac is present there, but you state no vac, well we are at a stand still and you need to retrace your steps. If vac is present at check valve and not after it, replace the check valve. The check valve is there to hold vac in vac tank. Like I said before, it works like a cruise control. If you find a vac leak on that tank or black line, I have fixed them before with epoxy with good long term success, worth a try for a 2002. I like permatex epoxy. Maybe others can chime in also and tell us what they think.

    Regards, hope this helps you. Nickb2
     
  15. Check and see if that vacuum line routes anywhere near the battery. A common GM issue with source HVAC vacuum lines was being damaged by acid where they were routed underneath the battery box.
     
  16. Overcome by Weather and Other Events. Based on what I've seen so far:

    1. No sucking/hissing sound under hood or in the dashboard area.
    2. The Black vac supply line is clear of the Battery. I've seen these lines get crushed on a TBird we had, and replacing the battery was the cause.
    3. It's really a good diagram, shows the function of the Select Switch (valve) in various positions.
    4. I find the description of Vacuum Tank (where it's located and how to access it) very confusing. All this is crammed into a van-style dash/instrument panel/HVAC compartment area. Behind an Air Bag, too. It's gonna be hard to trace much of that Black Hose, but I'll get after it.
    5. I'll come up with a vacuum source and verify the servos will change modes with that temporary vac source.
    6. Was hoping all I had to do was access the Switch and source a replacement. Ahhh...

    Thanks!
     
  17. Run a vacuum hose from the engine to the control head. If everything works at idle, just plumb in a check valve and vacuum tank at a convenient location. No need to be Ford-Proud, any brand will do. Some tanks have the check valve built into the tank.
     
  18. I totally agree with this!! Also, screw ford for having engineered this!!
     
  19. Any chance this is an Epiphany? Last night I was telling the wife:

    "Ya Know, I can run a hose from A to B and see how it works - Can always add a vacuum tank if it diverts under too light a load"

    So I look on Amazon for "Vacuum Reservoir" and the only one they carry is that black plastic Sphere that GM used all those years on all those vehicles, $12. I read "Reviews" and let me paraphrase this one:

    "Ford wanted $1000 to fix my A/C controls on a 2000 E250. I bought this tank and it works better than new"

    Last night I was out with a flashlight trying to figure out where to mount a 6" hard plastic ball. Wrote Dorman and they say it's 157mm, so more like 6-1/4" Couldn't see any under-hood or behind-grille space that size. Still have a trim panel at passenger's knees to look behind but I doubt there's that kind of room. Saw one on line for F-Series and the reserve was flat, about the size/shape of a "bank bag"

    Pretty sure I won't tear it down like Ford would.

    Major boat problems I need to fix in a week too, so....

    ... Case Pends...
     
  20. I love these threads, especially when the OP is assiduous. I did my own research and since I have worked on many foreign cars, remembered the germans mercedes use a similar system and found this link http://www.germanimportsllc.com/12achecova3v.html, which resembles your check valve. Only 5$ online, 8$ at the dealer. As for availability, not sure, but should work with that reservoir you have.

    Source vacuum to yellow, and source out to tank and selector switch, and you won't need to open the evaporator core case. I am sure there is room in the engine bay for the vac tank and routing rubber vac lines is easy as pie. Cheap too!! And will last forever. :idea:;) Then you can move on to diagnosing the selector switch. But From what I read from this thread, if you don't have that black line vac at selector, no go, no fun and opening up that evap core sucks large. Pun intended. I know my english is not always good, but I hope this helps you to resolve the issue cheap and fast.

    JD, you rock!! Wish we had more members like you. I too had a job to do today, was supposed to check out a mercury outboard and it hailed this morning, I think we are getting the but(had to edit, butt takes two t's :confused:) end of the texas storm I saw on the news. Took a while to get here, but now it is raining cats and dogs. Sometimes I hate quebec. I think that is why so many quebecers go to florida for retirement!!:D
    3 way check valve for mercedes.gif
     
  21. I also found this and I would not want to do this procedure, so I think bypassing the whole check valve and tank to get vacuum to selector switch would be the best/cheap route.

    Not my writing and here is a link. http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5ewef-ford-hello-2000-ford-van-e350-super-duty-1ftse34l0yhb80142.html

    It is showing a 3 way check valve it must be internal to that evap case.

    1. Disconnect the battery ground cable.
    1. Remove the suction accumulator/drier. For additional information, refer to Suction Accumulator in this section.
    1. Remove the nuts and reposition the manifold absolute pressure sensor and bracket.
    1. Remove the nuts and reposition the vapor management valve and bracket (5.4L and 6.8L).
    1. Disconnect the condenser to evaporator tube from the A/C evaporator core. For additional information, refer to Spring Lock Coupling Disconnect and Connect general procedure in Section 412-00.
    1. Remove the screws and the suction accumulator bracket.
    1. Loosen the clamps and remove the intercooler tube (7.3L diesel).
    1. Remove the screws and remove the evaporator core housing support bracket.
    1. Remove the 11 screws, release the 3 retaining tabs and remove the evaporator core cover.
    1. Remove the evaporator core.
    1. To install, reverse the removal procedure.
      • Install a new A/C evaporator core with the correct amount of PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) F7AZ-19589-DA (Motorcraft YN-12-C) or equivalent meeting Ford specification WSH-M1C231-B. For additional information, refer to Section 412-00.
      • Install new O-rings lubricated in clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) F7AZ-19589-DA (Motorcraft YN-12-C) or equivalent meeting Ford specification WSH-M1C231-B.

    Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5ewe...per-duty-1ftse34l0yhb80142.html#ixzz3eCSOQjsb


    2011-08-15_141210_vacuum_tank1.jpg 2011-08-15_141210_vacuum_tank1.jpg
     
  22. Opening up a AC unit and paying for all that is useless if it is just the check valve or the tank in my opinion. Maybe someone else here can chime in and give you better advice, but this is all I got for you at this point. Post back when you have vacuum at selector switch and if the defrost/vent mode won't work, we will work further with you. Again, wish all the guys that come here were like you!!;)
     
  23. So hope to hear from this thread before summer ends, lol, and I am sure you will get her done.

    regards

    Nickb2
     
  24. I'm a 45+ year member of US Coast Guard Auxiliary, and we run our 21-ft Sea Ray "Pocket Cruiser' (a sport boat with a little cabin) on safety, regatta, and rescue missions. Power's a 5.7L V8 (Chevy 350) with MerCruiser stern drive. Here's what happens when I hire somebody: Outdrive installed with O-Ring out of place. Pumped salt water through the shift cable to the starboard side of the engine, where it ran down over the starter and into the bilge. We also had an engine-mounted circulation pump go out, and salt water got into belts and pulleys. I got a set of good used pulleys and cleaned up the rust that wasn't pulleys. Go to paint the "bottom side" of the harmonic balancer, starter runs but doesn't engage. The way the engine's installed, took me about 4 hours to change the starter. Had a spare on hand, have since restored the take-off to be the spare. Anyhow, this morning I got all the pulleys and belts installed and it's running again.

    There was only about 30 mics for the E450. I measured the OD of the plastic lines, 5/32" and I think Mrs.jd spotted a place I can mount the vacuum "ball" by removing the air filter housing and mounting it under the cowling in the "V" of the engine. Then I pulled the trim at passenger side knee level. Yelled FORD and pulled. Came right off. Behind that there's a metal plate that unbolts. I don't think there's room for a Vacuum Tank, but I found a couple vacuum lines and a connection point. So there's a couple more places I can test, but for now I can say a Black Line (and Black should be Supply) leads through a grommet into.... Evaporator Core Housing (that I've been calling the HVAC Cabinet).

    Now it's getting interesting! I WILL fix this Sucker! I will NOT go through the gyration shown above NOR will I hire Ford to fix it. I'd rather Push a Ford than Drive a Chevy. That's Ford Proud.

    Thanks for the encouragement. Victory is at hand.
     
  25. Saturday Morning Update: Lordy, it's Sunny, Hot, Sticky Humid. Oh, the E450 project:

    Removing a crash panel trim, the plate behind it, the bracket behind that, along with the kick panel trim, I was able to find where the Black tube (supply to the HVAC Control Knob) comes out of the inside of the HVAC cabinet, secured with a grommet. A nearly inaccessible connector joins that Black tube to the supply tube for the Knob, and the White tube that's for the Recirc Air servo.

    Got out my MityVac. Suction on either end of Black (at supply connector under hood, or coming out of HVAC cabinet) with other end plugged, produces LEAK. The MityVac can't create any suction. This tells me the Tubing, and/or Check Valve, and/or Reserve Tank (all of which seem to be buried in the HAVAC Cabinet) is LEAKING.

    Proof of Concept. Plugged tube connector back onto Select Valve. Used MityVac to supply vacuum to the Valve. Started Engine with A/C switch on. Supplying external test vacuum to the Valve lets me change Modes. All but Recirc since that two-hose connector is disconnected to supply vacuum at the Black tube.

    Modes seem to hold without pumping the MityVac till changed with the Knob. This suggests the system might work OK with only a Check Valve, once I bypass the leak(s) in HVAC cabinet. I can certainly try it, and add a Vacuum Reserve Tank later. Once I figure out where.

    Going to find or make a hole in the firewall...
     
  26. That black line coming out of HVAC Cabinet has a built-in grommet. I can pull that free and when I do, there's a large object a couple inches down the line. No doubt it's the Check Valve. A guy with more nerve than me could make an access hole in the cabinet big enough to disconnect what's there and connect the tubes together. Then fasten a repair patch over the access hole.

    I found that Mercedes vacuum check valve at the link listed and at Amazon for about half the price. Amazon's prime price is 2X the other site, but that site's shipping/handling makes it work out to 2X Amazon's price.

    Price aside, do you know the Tubing/Hose sizes the German part connects to . I'd like to see it to fit 1/8" (3mm) tubing. The hose connection on the Dorman 47077 Vacuum Reserve Tank I'd like to use. The plastic tubing on the vehicle now is 1/8" (3mm) Outside Diameter. If I can match those to the Check Valve then I can put it all together without size adapters.

    Found a way to route hose from the underhood source line to the connector by the HVAC cabinet by going inside the fender than in through a grommet in the door post (near the hinges). Now to just do it. Will have to order parts...
     
  27. Your Advance link led me to the BWD/Carquest EC101 vacuum reserve. I think I'll ask them to get me one of those. It has more the look of a tuna can than the big sphere so common on GM and about the only replacement Dorman carries in Help! line. Tomorrow after church I'll look in on Advance.

    I've got a strategy for anybody who starts a thread on this issue. Find the black tube coming out of the HVAC cabinet in front of passenger's feet. Cut it and see if there's vacuum on the HVAC end. If none, run a bypass line, check valve, tee and vacuum reserve. If there IS vacuum, OOPS, sorry, splice it with 2" of 1/8" ID vacuum hose and start digging.

    I still have no check valve and no reserve tank, so I need to get more parts AND find out where to put the reserve tank.
     
  28. This took me awhile to understand, my french got in the way. Screenshot (67).png
     
  29. more,

    I am no longer at my Gf's place, and have access to my database. Screenshot (68).png Screenshot (69).png
     
  30. Chart Two, Top Box - Incorrect/Erratic - Sounds like ME and some others.

    Sorry about "boite de thon" [pronounced "tone"] - You do very well in English, better than many who don't live in French Canada. I had to gOOgle to get that answer. I do not know much French although I took it in high school. Should have taken Spanish. Much more use for Spanish in modern day America. Particularly FL, NM, TX.

    I'll supply info about the canister I find. That common one is spherical 156-mm diameter plus mounting ears on one side.
     
  31. https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...LINMVbUdVKxE50ncN9sUtSz0VJDOlJB8CILGl4CCByb0I bought one of these
    [​IMG]
    Which reminds me of these
    [​IMG]
    It's about the only Vacuum Reserve Canister that I'll call "readily available" NAPA had one in Richmond VA at about 4x the price, and no dimensions. Turns out there's space under the wiper cowling, behind the air filter, to install it. Probably will ZIP tie it to two metal tabs that support a wiring harness. Only weighs a few ounces. I have the filter assembly out now and verified it. Had to move the RV yesterday and A/C responded to controls like it should. Temp in the 90's (F) here in FL today with strong sun and I used up my outdoor endurance on the lawn. Should have a complete project and results in a few days. I hope to work on it tomorrow. Installing a bomb in the morning and going to fireworks that night just has a nice bang to it. Thanks, everybody!
     
  32. :fixed:Project Complete!

    Had already run a vacuum hose to bypass the vacuum check valve and reserve canister in the HVAC cabinet. Had found a promising location for the "Acme" canister under the cowling behind the air filter. Even better, there are two metal brackets with holes for bolts in that area. There are nearby wiring harnesses, but the brackets themselves were unused. Removed air filter as if replacing element. All this involves is one band clamp. Nothing else had to come off. Bolted one end of the Acme to one bracket and made an extension out of strapping iron to reach from other end to other bracket.
    [​IMG]

    This is the underhood vacuum connection with new Vacuum Check Valve, leading to re-routed Hose. Note that the vacuum supply from Intake Manifold is the RED hose. The rest of Vacuum Source, all the way to the Mode Switch (Valve) is BLACK
    [​IMG]

    This is where I cut the Black Source tube coming out of the lower right corner of the HVAC cabinet. It shows against the triangular white patch near the center of the photo.
    [​IMG]

    And... This is the mess I made taking the Instrument Panel Bezel out without checking for vacuum source first. With this problem on a Ford in the future, I'd verify the Engine Source (RED at Connector to BLACK). If OK, find where Source (BLACK) leads to the Mode Switch. Cut tube and check for vacuum. If NO vacuum, run bypass hose and test control function. If controls work, install new Check Valve and Reservoir. If YES vacuum, THEN and Only Then, do what it takes to access the Mode Switch (actually a Valve). Patch the cut tube with an inch of 1/8" or 5/32" ID vacuum hose.
    [​IMG]
    And this mess in the passenger foot well.
    [​IMG]
    The black "hose" running across this picture is actually the Radio Antenna Lead. The grommet I passed the new vacuum hose through, is just forward of the one where this passes through the door frame.

    Works great! Final cost around $25.00 USD. Lot of labor but much from lots of investigation. A repair with the process of elimination above (tracing and verifying Vacuum Source) would make this a very manageable project. Dorman Part Numbers are Canister 47077 and Two-Way Check Valve 47150

    The BEZEL was a Bear! Very difficult to pry out and a little nasty going back in. Area around headlight switch got hung up under Instrument Cluster. When I got it out from under, it popped into place trapping two of my left fingers. I'd put the tools out of the way and could barely reach a trim tool with my free hand. At this point I did not yell "Ford" but rather discussed the bezel's ancestry and current profession...

    THANKS ALL for the Help!!!
     
  33. Haha, success, bravo!!!!!

    So it was the black vac source and vac res. Nice. I think this is a fixed thread.

    Thx for the pics. Shows what goes into yelling "ford";)

    I fell off my GF's bike, nursing a bad knee and another beer, but so happy you got that done. :D

    I love it when ppl fix thier own sh$t!! Makes the economy stronger. Less waste and high self confidence.

    Again, bravo.

    Here are firework from up here. two years ago but it's like an aha moment.

     
  34. An epiphany is like when you are having sex with your wife/gf and the next day you try to nail a 2x4 and you hit a brick wall. Or some idiot who lights off fire works and blows up a town.

    My humour is sometimes strange, but I am proud of your assiduousness.
     
  35. Assiduous.... Fifty-Cent word for Anal?

    Where do I click FIXED?

    Get well from that spill! Can't have you sore and off duty.
     
  36. No, assiduous is not a word for anal. Not in my understanding of the word. It means working with conviction and determination.

    Anal is like tooling around details that don't make sense.

    As for the fixed icon. You will find it on clicking the smiley face icon when you post at the top of the correction bar.:fixed::D
     
  37. I'm tougher than that!! Haha. I just need a few days to make sure I don't hurt it more. Walked three kilometers today and knee and hip held up fine, sore, but solid. So screw the doctor. I am damn sure to not wait in a hospital for 24hrs for this. But thanks for the nice comment.

    Nickb2
     
  38. Let me please hijack my own thread and ask:

    Can anybody tell me where

    1. A/C Condensate Drain

    2. HVAC Blower Resistor Pack

    Are?

    Trying to help on another forum, and searching around our E-450, I didn't even find the Resistor Pack!

    It's possible the "Drain" is nothing but a gap in the bottom seam of the Evap Housing. On ours, the Drip flows across the top of the Chassis Rail and falls off up toward the bumper. I just couldn't see or feel anything, reach it for that matter, around Evap Housing.

    THANKS!!!
     
  39. That and they use hard plastic tubing Heat makes it so brittle just touching or moving it causes cracks.
     
  40. Searching videos and pictures, it seems that
    1. With Battery Removed
    2. Can Remove Blower Fan
    3. Drain can be cleaned from the big hole the Squirrel Cage came out of
    4. Resistor Pack is visible in the lower driver side corner of the HVAC cabinet now not hidden by Battery