2005 international 4200 vt365 no crank/ no start

Discussion in 'Heavy Truck & Equipment Forum' started by kevin biles, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. kevin biles

    kevin biles Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Please fill out the following to ask a question.

    MAKE:international
    MODEL:4200
    YEAR:2005
    MILES:265000
    ENGINE:vt 365
    DESCRIBE ISSUE....replaced 2 injectors and idm, repaired ecm short to ground now have no crank /no start. was cranking prior but wouldnt start prior to idm replacement.is not setting any codes, checked with service maxx have power to ecm from switch but not from ecm to start relay. i am a mechanic for a fleet ofmacks,hinos and f550 fords with the 6.0,6.4, and 6.7 so i am familiar with the way they should work.this is a side job and the only way to test the ecm is tow the truck 50 miles to the dealer.cant afford that. i suspect a bad ecm start driver any suggestions?
     
  2. dabunk

    dabunk wrench

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mine Hill, New Jersey
    Home Page:
    Sadly the VT365 is a glorified 6.0 but the wiring is totally different! I had a fleet 40 of these piggies. What was the original problem causing the injector change? Was it running previously or running bad or smoking? You have access to Service max which is good but very hard to get proper schematics out of! And where was ecm short located that you fixed?
     
  3. kevin biles

    kevin biles Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    was running but had a distinct miss ,low side of the injectors failed, after the injector change on the test drive the idm failed due to short to ground in the "clean power" at the battery box all of the icp pressures are correct 875+ at crank batt voltage at idm owner wanted new cmp and ckp sensors while i was there injector harness was bad shape so replaced it with oem replacement still wouldnt start but would crank now have no crank all gauges sweep injectors cycle but just wont crank or start i'm at a loss . international dealer service mgr told me to monitor icp press and hp oil system while jumping start relay with key in on position if all is right he would suspect ecu.
     
  4. kevin biles

    kevin biles Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    i also know on ford they had a problem with ebp so they eliminated it from the usable inputs the ebp on this truck is reading over 2000 koeo new ebp sensor and clean tube wiring is all within spec on resistance dont know if int eliminated the sensor as an input as well
     
  5. kevin biles

    kevin biles Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    as far as schematics the truck has factory wiring schematics for engine controls with it but not for the starting circuit ive worked on some of our older dt466s this one doesnt have the secondary solenoid on the firewall like my int service books indicate
     
  6. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    116
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Diagnostic tech
    Location:
    St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
    I am inclined to go with what the service manager told you. I also would suspect a bad ECU since we know it had a short to ground on the clean power. Probably an internal driver issue.
     
  7. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    116
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Diagnostic tech
    Location:
    St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
    Does this schematic resemble what you have. 2014-12-14_225333_vt365.png
     
  8. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    116
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Diagnostic tech
    Location:
    St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
    If so, just monitor the can lines to see if they are talking to each other and check all sensor grounds. if all that is ok, then check circuit IDM relay vbat, that needs to be checked out. I think my bad english thinks this is what you mean by clean power. Correct me if I am wrong and I will try to use better english. I am french, so for me clean power means Vbat ciruit.That is a crucial live circuit. It is what you need to check for the IDM pwr circuit to work. If all is good there, and grounds check ok at ECU, that short may have fried the ecu.

    What type of scanner are you using. I use a autel with maxisys with version ms908 when the hinos internationals come in. What are you using. Can you monitor the can bus line.

    I will try real hard to go on my scanner tommorow as I know we have two in the shop for suspension problems, but we are swamped now for the winter stuff and the parking is full, I make no garantees that I will have time to give more info untill I clear my bay of all the OBD2 light trucks and car stuff I have to clear.

    But I will try to help you the best I can. Normally I am pretty good with this sort of thing, but I am swamped.


    Also, I am not used to doing the heavy truck thing, but I have come to understand that basics are basics, and OBD is the same . It is after all just a communication lane. If one of those goes short, try looking at other modules for a lack of communiation code, which will help narrow down a failed ecu on the can line.
     
  9. dabunk

    dabunk wrench

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mine Hill, New Jersey
    Home Page:
    Lets backtrack a little. On your engine the ECU mounts on top of the IDM on the drivers side of the engine?

    Now your short was on the heavy purple wire that runs from the battery to the IDM relay on the firewall?

    OK then injector harness was replaced but would crank but not start correct? What happened then or just out of the blue will not crank or was there other work done?

    As I recall the IDM relay has constant power directly from battery and the ECU feeds ground to the relay to engage it. We had lots of problems with the bases for those relays being bad.

    Our busses had another relay on the firewall for the starter and that was powered from the ECU

    So you are saying you are getting nothing to engage that relay. But if you jump it out the vehicle will crank but still no start?
     

Share This Page