2007 Pontiac G6 Hardtop Convertible.

Discussion in 'Domestics' started by NoSweatAmerica, Aug 2, 2014.

  1. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Still can't find a proper part number for those hinges. Dang! Did over 1hr research last night while eat some corn, in the image I attached, next to the spring, that is the hinge in question, and they say to replace whole unit. :eek: The said spring has an arrow #1. Right next to it the busted part. From What I have heard both are busted. The pictures sent via e-mail and provided here are quite clear.

    Also, the other attachment is for whole assembly adjustment. Hope this help's. At this point it ain't a screw or rivet, it is clear in the pictures that Joe gave us, those hinges snapped!. Now what caused that is another question, maybe lack of lubricant, or other part snagging. Hard to know without having it in front of me. They don't look plastic to me. But I could be wrong. And if they are composite plastic, what kind of engineer would do that for such a folding hard top? hydraulics are involved here should be aluminum.

    I also noted 8.8 graded bolts, hard to believe this part is plastic. Like I said, I have never fixed one of these, only a moonroof. What I mean here, is if they bolted down with 8.8 grade bolts, that part can easily be replaced. Now where to find some hinges is a whole different story. After that, it is just a question aligning the folding hardware without scratching the paint. Delicate process but can be done.

    If it was me, I would have a apprentice/ buddy help and replace one hinge at a time while said buddy holds the other side. Quicker and not need to force your back. Cuz replacing the whole unit is a major PITA.
     

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  2. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    To Nick -B and all the others of you who have sent your thoughts.
    What we have been able to find out will make all your blood boil as it does to mine.
    We have taken the time to write to two U.S. Senators from Michigan and my Congressman in Florida. We have also sent this note to all the Big News Agenties. Not Sure What Will Happen. I am passing this along to all of you!

    Most of you have heard of Karmann Coach Company. They are the manufacture of this part #25887153 (they likely have it but GM owns (this part) and will not allow it to be sold or sent to their dealers) This becomes the basis of the letter below.
    If you would like to comment or pass this on please do so. - joe
    ____________________
    PASSING THIS ALONG. this could make an interesting article to pursue.
    joe watson

    From: "WATSON, JOE" <joewatsoninc@comcast.net>
    To: "tom tryon" <tom.tryon@heraldtribune.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 9:44:53 AM
    Subject: General Motors "big guy beats little guy up"

    Tom,

    This should cause most peoples blood to boil after spending money to bail them out! You may want to expand on this in a newspaper article. I am happy to contribute my awareness of what seems to be going on.

    Joe Watson 941 9662879

    _________________________________________________

    I have sent this same message to two Michigan U.S. Senators. And, My Florida Congressman. Please see if you can have any influence, too. I will be happy to meet with you and show you what this is all about.
    ______________________________________
    Senator I grew up in Lansing, Michigan and ran some of the largest retail stores all over the state.

    I also designed and sold thousands of Ladies shoes to Jacobson, Gantos, Crowley's , Sibleys and many others. (you likely may have bought a pair under the private labels I made for these merchant.

    I have always had fond feelings for the state of Michigan. Although today I 'm old enough to live in Florida.

    I hate what General Motors has done. Please take a few moments to read what has happened.

    I own a 2007 Pontiac G6 Hardtop Convertible.
    a couple of weeks ago I tried to put the top up because it looked like it would rain. On its way to closing and locking Its mechanism caused a malfunction and broke the part number 25887153 away. I contacted the dealer. I contacted GM and was told This part is no longer available.

    Since then, I have talked with more than 20 ex Pontiac dealers around the U.S. They all Say; "we have been told by GM to say - the part no longer exist and is not available"

    I was always told: "by law an Auto Manufacture must make replacement parts available for up to 10 years"....for things like this that could happen.

    The worst thing is: I have been in contact with over 15 parts dealers and they all have said: "you are one of hundreds of calls we are getting about this same problem".

    GM certainly knows who the parts manufacture is who made this part for them. (we think it is Karmann) And, some of us feel they have the part in their warehouse. But, GM will not give their permission to sell it - even to a GM Dealer.

    Why won't they call and say we need to give our dealers more of this part.
    Instead they prefer to Stonewall a small customer and a Citizen who helped bail them out of their financial problems.

    This is not fair (Big Guy Beats Up Little Guy)

    Hopefully you will go to bat on this - and put some pressure on GM to not let people down!

    Thank You for your attention, and I do look forward to hearing from you.

    Joe Watson, president
    Joe Watson, Inc

     
  3. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    I am really getting pissed off with this. LKQ, http://www.lkqpintendre.com/autos.phpthe biggest salvage yard supplier up here with contacts all across north america.

    He called me back today, nothing across canada or states, and the bonus was that he said a local client asked for the same part. He said this part is in great demand, but we don't have anymore and part is discontinued and we do get a scrapped car, will have to buy the whole roof mechanism :eek:. Yeah But what color is it :ROFL We had a good laugh on the phone.

    The more I delve into this, it's nuts. I have been doing business with these guys for years and they find something me always. But in this, nada!! http://www.lkqpintendre.com/autos.php

    So dude say's call the dealer. I did that, I say, my buddy bruno is a great part's guy for gm, he too can't figure this one out.

    So Joe, at this point, remove the hinges, take them to a respectable aluminum welder and get them fixed there or ask a machinist to do something on autocad, cuz the only part I can find is 1300$ and that's not including labor and delivery cost. I don't know how else to help you any further. Even buying a whole roof section used is almost a grand.

    Try to find a CNC guy and he can remodel those hinges, might cost less than that unit.

    Maybe some of the other wrenches here have other options, I don't know. ouch
     
  4. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Some questions on how this top was damaged in the first place, from the owners manual:

    "Retractable Hardtop
    The following procedures explain the proper
    operation of the retractable hardtop. The retractable
    hardtop will not operate if the trunk cargo cover is
    not in place.
    If the retractable hardtop is lowered or raised
    multiple times, the engine should be running while
    doing so to prevent drain on the vehicles battery.

    {CAUTION:When the retractable hardtop is opened or
    closed, people can be injured by the parts
    that move: the hardtop and its mechanism,
    the trunk lid, and the side windows. Keep
    people away from these parts when you are
    lowering or raising the top.

    Lowering the Retractable Hardtop
    Notice: Leaving the retractable hardtop down
    and exposing the interior of your vehicle to
    outdoor conditions may cause damage. Always
    close the retractable hardtop if leaving your
    vehicle outdoors.
    Notice: Lowering the top if it is damp, wet, or
    dirty can cause stains, mildew, and damage
    to the inside of your vehicle. Dry off the
    top before lowering it.
    Notice: If you lower the retractable hardtop in
    cold weather (0F/−18C or lower), you may
    damage top components. Do not lower
    the retractable hardtop in cold weather.
    1. Park on a level surface and apply the parking
    brake. Shift the automatic transaxle into
    PARK (P). The vehicle must be in PARK (P),
    and the engine must be running, or the ignition
    turned to the ON position, to operate the
    retractable hardtop.
    2. The trunk cargo cover must be fully closed,
    and the trunk must be closed before lowering
    the hardtop.
    3. Make sure that nothing or no one is on or
    around the hardtop. Make sure there is
    nothing on top or in front of the cargo cover."

    Many more cautions on this, but by any chance was the vehicle in motion when you tried to close the top? Excessive wind can cause a lot of damage to these and other convertible tops. Use to own convertibles, but not practical up north.

    Sure most of us guys have refabricated parts over the years. Sure don't want to replace half the vehicle just for one broken hinge. Refabricating all the windows in my boat right now. On just this model used tempered safety glass, not even sure how the word, "safety" fits into this. Just a tad too much pressure breaks this glass into a thousand pieces, and sharp ones at that. Ha, sure see the bandaids on my fingers, hands and wrist, but healing, finally got rid of all the broken glass.

    Replacing seven windows, could spend as much as over $2.000 getting used stuff all over the US, but will still have the same problem. So just got a 4 by 8 foot sheet of marine plexiglass delivered to my door for 140 buck, enough to replace all seven windows. Took a left over piece 4 by 15 inches and bent it about 135 degrees before it snapped into two, and a clean snap at that, no loose pieces. Will be a lot more robust and safer after this.
     
  5. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    Nick D.......everything you say is correct and comes from the manual on the 2 dr Hardtop convertible. It is even more sensitive than they discribe. No we did not try to put the top up while the car was moving. First place the car will not allow you to do that. And, yes the engine must be running to put the top up or down. With this instance it appears to somehow get slightly off track and grab the folding lid and tore off the hinges. Hinge part number is 15815587 but it is a part of the larger part number 25887153.
    But regardless General Motors is not allowing the part to be sold to their dealers from the parts manufacture who is Karmann Coach Company of Germany! Rediculous but true!
     
  6. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Back in the 80's working directly for GM was not an option since they hired a CEO that elected to outsource just about everything. So got a job working for a first tier supplier.

    In dealing with GM can go one of two ways, if we used their designs and they paid for the tooling, we could only sell to GM.

    The other way and the way they preferred business with at least us, with no design arts patent on the final configuration was to use our own design made to their specifications, and we paid for all the tooling. So we owned the designed and were permitted to sell out parts to the aftermarket. With one exception, we would stamp our own name on the product and part number, where for ACDelco would stamp on their name and assigned part number.

    So I am gathering with this German company, GM paid for the tooling, this German company does not own the design nor the tooling so not permitted to sell it to the aftermarket. So don't blame them, they can be sued heavily if they did.

    The advantages for us in doing business with GM and other motor companies as well, production runs were in the millions rather than the thousands. Profit margins were low, and we even gave credits for returns. As long as they were under 1%, we didn't care, but most of it was good. We did get a good profit margin from our aftermarket business. They didn't care about this either, because the percentages were low.

    In looking at those rather long levers in the convertible top design, can see why their are problems. GM is now outsourcing to many different companies in China, some are meeting specifications, other are not. Ha, my rear disc brakes on my Cruze were sure not. GM also dumped their incoming quality inspection. Recently purchased a pile of half axles that weren't even tempered and snapping into two. Leaking water pumps, poor thermostats, leaking heater cores, etc.

    See their latest recall is on SUV fires caused by always hot window motors that start on fire. Cautioning everyone to leave these outside so they don't burn up the building they are located in. Use to be only thing that was always hot were the external lighting systems and the horn, and using an ignition switch that even had a 60 amp capacity, later hazard warning lamps, part of the lighting system was added, always hot.

    Now just about everything is always hot, for most of us, waking up to a dead battery, these fires are new. Ha, sure rehire a bunch of us old time engineers to get them back on track, we would think about stuff like this.
     
  7. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    To Nick D Thank you for your comments. Being a designer and inventor I respect GM Integrity rights to the part they designed or paid for to be designed and made! However, The ultimate problem still comes back to GM not allowing the part to be made for them again by Karmann so that they can replace the part thru their GM dealers. There is NO excuse for this.
    We will keep trying to get a more definitive answer from GM - but there lower level response teams seem to only be able to echo the company "The part is no longer available" That is a StoneWall answer. It obviously still exist in Karmanns warehouse or production records and can be repaid at GM's request.
    Joe watson
     
  8. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    Nick D ...........sorry for the spelling mistakes (their) and should have been (remade)
     
  9. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Have you tried this site?

    http://www.gm.com/content/gmcom/home/lemon-law-warranty-concerns.html?seo=ysm_|_2012+GM.com+Retention-601057_|_Brand-Customer+Service-Exact_|_Customer+Service_|_gm%20customer%20service

    After screwing around for two months with two GM dealers to replace faulty rear disc calipers on my Cruze under warranty, finally got some action. Idiots kept on insisting I had vacuum problems after they called GM tech service, because the idiots had TSB's on this. When the original calipers were never plated, a pile of rust and do not adjust anymore for the reason of a low brake pedal. This is unbelievable to me. But also had on my side of the argument, a life threatening situation.

    They finally instructed my second dealer to replace these two pieces of crap. A vacuum problem? Not complaining about lack of vacuum assist, getting a full 19/Hg inches of vacuum, booster is holding vacuum over 24 hours for three complete stops, have plenty of vacuum assist, what does this have to do with a low brake pedal? But insisted on replacing the master cylinder, vacuum booster, vacuum switch assembly, and the vacuum pump with no improvements. When the parking brake was no longer adjusting the free play in the calipers! Do I have to hire an attorney?

    Ha, my son wanted to buy a new Chrysler T&C and just wanted to pay an extra 800 bucks for the trailer towing package, wanted the extra large radiator, alternator, and transmission cooler plus the hitch. Was told by his dealer, could only order this package if he also got the GPS and sunroof he did not want. So he went to the top executives at Chrysler. After a week they finally agreed. Just saying, sometimes you have to go to the top.

    Recall back in the late 80's, couldn't even talk to an engineer from another department unless an attorney was present. Idiot had no idea what we were talking about so kept on interrupting. Recently, hired a bunch of nice looking women as service reps, but they don't know a damn thing about cars. Could only comment, not interested in a dating service, want to speak to someone with technical knowledge. Feel like the whole world is going crazy.
     
  10. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Interesting article from up here.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/so-the-car-you-bought-is-a-lemon-now-what/article11909550/

    Again, I am trying hard to find those hinges, found this, try them :D Hope they still have them in stock.

    2007 G6 Convertible Top Lift HINGES AND LIFT MECHANISM SEE NOTES 9A9766 $721.00 BROWNS AUTO SALVAGE (866) 795-2911 x63452 Bomoseen, VT

    http://www.partshotlines.com/parts/pontiac/g6/convertible-top-lift.html


    Tried the part # 9A9776 on gmparts direct. com, still the same, they say part is either no longer available or # changed. Wow. 721$ for to small hinges that are structurally important and safety related. Nuts.

    For that price, I would machine them myself out of a chunk of iron/ drill bits / grinder / my measuring tools and a home depot hardware section with my houses front door hinges, would probably last forever and have new front door hinges on my front door all for 20$ :ROFL
    Or would try gm door hinges to use the pins, :eek: This is getting ridiculous. Just for laughs, I have two front doors, so maybe 40$ :ROFL
     
  11. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Do not feel replacing a defective part with another defective part is a viable solution. Same problem will occur again. Seems like some modification is necessary.

    Ha, here is a nice clean Florida car with only 40K miles on it in the $12K range. Think I will buy it, can always use more problems.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-G6-GT-Sporty-Fun-Convertible-Hard-Top-Pwr-Pkg-More-2007-PONTIAC-G6-GT-SPORTY-FUN-CONVERTIBLE-/221500922298?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33927bd9ba&item=221500922298&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
     
  12. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Yeah Nickd, 10-4 on that one!!
     
  13. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    Thank You Nick-B and Nick-D really helpful conversation and thank you for trying. We are going to have the part taken out on Tuesday by an ex Pontiac Dealer Mechanic. Sunset Chevrolet in Sarasota Fl. I will let you both know the results when we get it out. Maybe we can find a plastic or alumininum dye maker who would not charge an arm and leg to either repair it or make two new hinges.
    joe
     
  14. PC

    PC Full Member

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    Hey, here's a idea, take the part to a local Vo-Tech school that has a CAD Program and see if they can design a replacement. Then contact a Pontiac Restoration parts firm to reproduce it aftermarket. Can nearly build a complete 60's muscle car from a catalog. Vo-Tech here has CAD, 3-D printers and a full auto shop. Was in the market for a vehicle, always owned GM, this time went over to Ford. Figured Ford didn't cry for a handout, regrouped and pulled through, so decided to support Ford.
     
  15. NoSweatAmerica

    NoSweatAmerica Newbie

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    Could Be Worth a Try!
    However you must remember this part was designed by and paid for by GM. That means they have all types of trademarks, tradesecrets, and possibly patents on this part.
    Unfortunate - they - are the only ones who can release it to be sold (and you would think they would to their GM dealers!) I agree with your other reader....I like Ford because Mullany (CEO of Ford) said: we can handle our own problems and they did and their car sales are stronger than ever!
    joe
     

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