4L60E transmission with code P1870

Discussion in 'Transmission Forum' started by marine6212, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. marine6212

    marine6212 Full Member

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    :mad: I have a P1870 code on my 4L60E transmission, I just had this rebuilt. I took it back when the light first came on and the transmission shop reworked the valve body, it did not fix the code, they ordered another valve body just had it put in today. After driving around for about 2-2 1/2 hours at highway speeds and around town the same code comes back. I called the transmission shop and they want me to leave my 2000 Chevy blazer with them so that they can trouble shoot it. this is my only vehicle and I can't afford to leave it with them for more than one day. Does any one have any suggestions on what is causing this code? I know that its their dime to fix it but I have to drive 30 miles to the transmission shop and that cost gas money. not to mention the time I have to take off from work due to me not have a ride!!! :( :( I am supposed to take it to them this Friday after thanksgiving. Is there some thing I can tell these people to look for besides a valve body?


    Thanks,
    Marine6212
     
  2. crunch

    crunch wrench

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    For information on the code a All data sub would be a big help.

    Upper right hand corner of this web page.
    http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html

    HERE IS A LITTLE INFO

    But it takes a good tech with the proper equipment to test for this code.

    Good Luck
    Crunch


    Info - Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis #99-07-30-005 - (03/18/1999)Table 1: TCC System Symptom Table Table 2: Internal Transmission Symptom Table Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis1996 Buick Roadmaster 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood 1999 Cadillac Escalade 1996-99 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette 1996-99 Pontiac Firebird 1996-99 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models 1996-99 Oldsmobile Bravada 1996-99 Holden Commodore with Hydra-matic 4L60-E (RPO M30) DescriptionMany technicians experience difficulty when diagnosing 1996-1999 4L60-E transmissions with a DTC P1870 (Transmission Component Slipping). The purpose of this bulletin is to provide assistance for technicians that have already completed the DTC P1870 diagnostic table in the Service Manual. This bulletin will provide a diagnostic strategy for solving DTC P1870 concerns as well as give some of the most common causes for a DTC P1870. General Information ImportantChevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird with 3.8L V6 Engine experiencing a slip condition at 70-90 km/h (45-55 mph) when the TCC applies should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 77-71-70A for calibration re-flash. 1996 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models, and 1996 Oldsmobile Bravada with VCM and 4L60-E (RPO M30) with a slip or flare on the 1-2 and/or 2-3 upshift, or no 3rd or 4th gear, or launch shudder should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 66-71-03A to ensure that a poor internal ground in the VCM does not exist. A DTC P1870 indicates that a mechanical malfunction exists. If any other DTC's set along with a DTC P1870, then diagnose those first. A DTC P1860 (TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC PWM solenoid circuit failure exists. A DTC P0740 (TCC Enable Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC enable solenoid circuit failure exists. When attempting to duplicate DTC P1870, it is critical that a normal operating temperature of 82°C (180°F) to 93°C (200°F) be reached. It may be difficult to attain the transmission temperature required to adequately cause the DTC to duplicate. Allow the vehicle to idle to assist in warming the powertrain. Optimum speed to duplicate the DTC P1870 is between 89 km/h (55 mph) and 107 km/h (63 mph). Commanding the TCC ON and OFF several times with the Tech II is critical to monitoring slip when sticky valves in the valve body are suspect. If the customer brought in the vehicle for a temporary harsh 1-2 shift and no driveability concerns are seen during a test drive, then remember that a harsh 1-2 is a result of the PCM commanding maximum line pressure from recognizing a DTC P1870. The PCM must recognize that a DTC P1870 has set in two consecutive key cycles to illuminate the MIL. If a DTC P1870 is not recognized on a second key cycle, then normal line pressure returns. Vehicles should be inspected for correct tire size, axle ratio, or calibration. Diagnostic ApproachActionYesNoAttempt to duplicate DTC P1870. Did you duplicate DTC P1870?Go to Slip Check ProcedureGo to TCC System Symptom TableSlip Check ProcedureThis procedure will assist in isolating what area of the transmission is causing your slip, either the TCC system or internal transmission components. After you have isolated the origin of the slip, then utilize the TCC System Symptom Table or the Internal Transmission Symptom Table of this bulletin for most common concerns. To check for a TCC system concernTCC slip can occur either hot or cold or in both conditions. First, perform the following test at cold transmission temperatures, then perform the same test at normal operating temperature. Ideal slip from the transmission with the TCC applied is 50 RPM or less under light to normal throttle, no heavy engine load or hard accelerating conditions. Use the Tech II scan tool to monitor TCC slip while driving the vehicle in 4th gear at steady speed with the TCC commanded ON. When the TCC is applied or released (release the TCC with brake pedal, not the scan tool - release the TCC by lightly applying the brake pedal while simultaneously maintaining a steady throttle position), the slip speed should drop or rise 150-300 RPM. If the slip speed does not drop, then the DTC P1870 is being caused by the torque converter system. ActionYesNoDid TCC slip speed drop (150-300)?Continue Slip Check Procedure for an internal trans concernGo to TCC System Symptom TableTo check for an internal transmission concernSlip should be checked in every gear to isolate in which gear the slip may be occurring. Drive the vehicle in each forward gear range D1, D2, D3 and D4. Command the TCC ON with the Tech II in each gear and monitor slip speed. ImportantVehicle speed must be over 11 km/h (7 mph). Some TCC slip is normal when the TCC applies directly after 11 km/h (7 mph) is reached. If the slip speed remains constant from gear to gear, then the condition is most likely TCC related. Example: Slip speed is higher in second and fourth gear than in third gear. This would lead a technician to a possible slipping band. ActionYesNoIs slip speed equal in all gears?Go to TCC System Symptom TableGo to Internal Transmission Symptom TableImportantThese symptom tables are to be used when the following symptoms are associated with a DTC P1870. TCC System Symptom Table SymptomCausesTCC SLIP (100 RPM SLIP)Check for bronze bushing material in the pan and filter. If bronze material is present, then the stator bushings (234) and turbine shaft (241) should be replaced (Bronze bushing may turn black with an acrid odor). The turbine shaft and housing (621) should be replaced if damaged. In rare instances, it may be necessary to check for an overheated torque converter (24) (Blue and/or distorted converter). TCC solenoid (66) - Perform leak check. Converter clutch valve (224) in pump should be checked for 13 mm (0.500 in) of bore travel without binding. Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) cut. Turbine shaft hole not drilled to full depth. This concern can be checked by squirting trans fluid through the turbine shaft hole to check for full flow. This is a low mileage failure. NO TCC APPLY (300 RPM SLIP)Converter clutch valve (224) stuck closed (Check for debris in valve bore). TCC PWM solenoid (396) broken/cracked. Visually inspect solenoid. TCC solenoid (66). Perform leak test. Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) omitted. TCC SLIP WITH STALL STUMBLEConverter clutch valve (224) stuck open (TCC is applying).INTERMITTENT TCC, OK COLD, SLIPS HOTTCC PWM solenoid (396). Leak test solenoid. The TCC regulator apply valve (380) and/or converter clutch shift valve (224) may be sticking/side-loading. It is possible there will not be any damage to the valve upon inspection. Transmissions produced after 2/1/98 will have a groove cut into the spring end of the regulator apply valve. This design is to help float the valve in its bore (replace valve body assembly). Internal Transmission Symptom Table SymptomCauses3RD OR 4TH GEAR SLIP3-2 downshift solenoid (394) ball seat retention failed. Leak test solenoid. Usually associated with a 3-4 clutch/band worn. 3rd accumulator retainer and ball assembly (40) leaks. Test for proper check ball operation. Usually associated with burned 3-4 clutch. NO 4TH OR SLIPPING 4TH Check ball in the wrong location or extra check ball that has dropped behind the spacer plate during trans assembly. The extra check ball can block the 4th apply servo feed. Clutch orifice cup plug (238) not fully pressed in. SLIP/FLARE IN ANY GEARPump slide inner spring (207) or outer spring (206) omitted causing a slow slide response.NO 3RDClutch orifice cup plug (238) blown out.HARSH 1-2 UPSHIFT4-3 sequence valve (383) stuck in bore by sediment.NO 2-3 UPSHIFT2-3 shift valve (368) or 2-3 shuttle valve (369) stuck in bore by sediment.NO 3-4 UPSHIFT3-4 shift valve (385) stuck in bore by sediment.Service InformationRefer to the appropriate Service Manual for replacement procedures. Warranty InformationLabor Code: Refer to Labor Time Guide for correct labor operation. Please use the closest available labor operation for the diagnosis performed. GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
     
  3. crunch

    crunch wrench

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    Firday after a holliaday may not bee the best time for good work or to get a major check or repair. :)

    See if they will work with you on getting a loaner or rental car.

    I would suspect internal problems on it.
    The transmission may have to come out and be repaired again or another transmission.
    So they may need more than a day and you will need other transportation.
    Which may run into a few days.
    Good Luck
    And let us know how it goes.
    Crunch
     
  4. marine6212

    marine6212 Full Member

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    Thanks Crunch,
    This information is very helpful!! I am going to print it out and give it to the tranny shop.

    Marine6212
     
  5. Transman

    Transman Receptionist & Complaint Dept.

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    I should do a "canned reply" to this question. You are not the only one with this problem and for some reason all the techs and general media blames the valve body. The problem as I have found it leads right to the stator bushing in the pump, the rear one to be exact and the fix is simple (if the trans is out). Replace this bushing with the new and improved one from the kit and viola, problem and code gone. The valve body replacement will put the light out in some cases but not because this is the problem, it just seals some of the inherent leaks in the system. The major leak at the pump stator will wear the valve body out as well as the pump itself. Hope this helps, Transman
     
  6. urb0123

    urb0123 Newbie

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    Hi all,

    Sorry about this thread necro.

    I copied the above tech bulletin and found it almost unreadable in the existing format so I reformatted it and thought I would repost it for the next poor schmuck that needs to parse it.



    Info - Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis #99-07-30-005 - (03/18/1999)Table 1: TCC System Symptom Table Table 2: Internal Transmission Symptom Table Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis1996 Buick Roadmaster 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood 1999 Cadillac Escalade 1996-99 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette 1996-99 Pontiac Firebird 1996-99 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models 1996-99 Oldsmobile Bravada 1996-99 Holden Commodore with Hydra-matic 4L60-E (RPO M30)

    Description

    Many technicians experience difficulty when diagnosing 1996-1999 4L60-E transmissions with a DTC P1870 (Transmission Component Slipping). The purpose of this bulletin is to provide assistance for technicians that have already completed the DTC P1870 diagnostic table in the Service Manual. This bulletin will provide a diagnostic strategy for solving DTC P1870 concerns as well as give some of the most common causes for a DTC P1870.

    General Information ImportantChevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird with 3.8L V6 Engine experiencing a slip condition at 70-90 km/h (45-55 mph) when the TCC applies should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 77-71-70A for calibration re-flash.

    1996 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models, and 1996 Oldsmobile Bravada with VCM and 4L60-E (RPO M30) with a slip or flare on the 1-2 and/or 2-3 upshift, or no 3rd or 4th gear, or launch shudder should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 66-71-03A to ensure that a poor internal ground in the VCM does not exist.

    A DTC P1870 indicates that a mechanical malfunction exists. If any other DTC's set along with a DTC P1870, then diagnose those first. A DTC P1860 (TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC PWM solenoid circuit failure exists. A DTC P0740 (TCC Enable Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC enable solenoid circuit failure exists.

    When attempting to duplicate DTC P1870, it is critical that a normal operating temperature of 82°C (180°F) to 93°C (200°F) be reached. It may be difficult to attain the transmission temperature required to adequately cause the DTC to duplicate. Allow the vehicle to idle to assist in warming the powertrain. Optimum speed to duplicate the DTC P1870 is between 89 km/h (55 mph) and 107 km/h (63 mph).

    Commanding the TCC ON and OFF several times with the Tech II is critical to monitoring slip when sticky valves in the valve body are suspect. If the customer brought in the vehicle for a temporary harsh 1-2 shift and no driveability concerns are seen during a test drive, then remember that a harsh 1-2 is a result of the PCM commanding maximum line pressure from recognizing a DTC P1870. The PCM must recognize that a DTC P1870 has set in two consecutive key cycles to illuminate the MIL. If a DTC P1870 is not recognized on a second key cycle, then normal line pressure returns.

    Vehicles should be inspected for correct tire size, axle ratio, or calibration.





    Diagnostic Approach Action

    Attempt to duplicate DTC P1870.

    Did you duplicate DTC P1870?

    Yes - Go to Slip Check Procedure.

    No - Go to TCC System Symptom Table

    Slip Check Procedure -
    This procedure will assist in isolating what area of the transmission is causing your slip, either the TCC system or internal transmission components. After you have isolated the origin of the slip, then utilize the TCC System Symptom Table or the Internal Transmission Symptom Table of this bulletin for most common concerns.

    To check for a TCC system concern - TCC slip can occur either hot or cold or in both conditions. First, perform the following test at cold transmission temperatures, then perform the same test at normal operating temperature. Ideal slip from the transmission with the TCC applied is 50 RPM or less under light to normal throttle, no heavy engine load or hard accelerating conditions. Use the Tech II scan tool to monitor TCC slip while driving the vehicle in 4th gear at steady speed with the TCC commanded ON. When the TCC is applied or released (release the TCC with brake pedal, not the scan tool - release the TCC by lightly applying the brake pedal while simultaneously maintaining a steady throttle position), the slip speed should drop or rise 150-300 RPM. If the slip speed does not drop, then the DTC P1870 is being caused by the torque converter system.



    Did TCC slip speed drop (150-300)?

    Yes - Continue Slip Check Procedure for an internal trans concern

    No - Go to TCC System Symptom Table

    To check for an internal transmission concern - Slip should be checked in every gear to isolate in which gear the slip may be occurring. Drive the vehicle in each forward gear range D1, D2, D3 and D4. Command the TCC ON with the Tech II in each gear and monitor slip speed. Important - Vehicle speed must be over 11 km/h (7 mph). Some TCC slip is normal when the TCC applies directly after 11 km/h (7 mph) is reached. If the slip speed remains constant from gear to gear, then the condition is most likely TCC related. Example: Slip speed is higher in second and fourth gear than in third gear. This would lead a technician to a possible slipping band.



    Is slip speed equal in all gears?

    Yes - Go to TCC System Symptom Table

    No - Go to Internal Transmission Symptom Table

    Important - These symptom tables are to be used when the following symptoms are associated with a DTC P1870.



    TCC System Symptom Table

    Symptom- TCC SLIP (100 RPM SLIP)
    Causes –

    Check for bronze bushing material in the pan and filter. If bronze material is present, then the stator bushings (234) and turbine shaft (241) should be replaced (Bronze bushing may turn black with an acrid odor).

    The turbine shaft and housing (621) should be replaced if damaged.

    In rare instances, it may be necessary to check for an overheated torque converter (24) (Blue and/or distorted converter).

    TCC solenoid (66) - Perform leak check.

    Converter clutch valve (224) in pump should be checked for 13 mm (0.500 in) of bore travel without binding.

    Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) cut.

    Turbine shaft hole not drilled to full depth. This concern can be checked by squirting trans fluid through the turbine shaft hole to check for full flow. This is a low mileage failure.



    Symptom

    NO TCC APPLY (300 RPM SLIP)

    Causes-

    Converter clutch valve (224) stuck closed (Check for debris in valve bore).

    TCC PWM solenoid (396) broken/cracked. Visually inspect solenoid. TCC solenoid (66). Perform leak test.

    Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) omitted.



    Symptom - TCC SLIP WITH STALL STUMBLE

    Causes –

    Converter clutch valve (224) stuck open (TCC is applying).

    Symptom - INTERMITTENT TCC, OK COLD, SLIPS HOT

    Causes –

    TCC PWM solenoid (396). Leak test solenoid.

    The TCC regulator apply valve (380) and/or converter clutch shift valve (224) may be sticking/side-loading. It is possible there will not be any damage to the valve upon inspection. Transmissions produced after 2/1/98 will have a groove cut into the spring end of the regulator apply valve. This design is to help float the valve in its bore (replace valve body assembly).



    Internal Transmission Symptom Table

    Symptom - Causes3RD OR 4TH GEAR SLIP

    Causes –

    3-2 downshift solenoid (394) ball seat retention failed. Leak test solenoid. Usually associated with a 3-4 clutch/band worn.

    3rd accumulator retainer and ball assembly (40) leaks. Test for proper check ball operation. Usually associated with burned 3-4 clutch.

    Symptom - NO 4TH OR SLIPPING 4TH

    Causes –

    Check ball in the wrong location or extra check ball that has dropped behind the spacer plate during trans assembly. The extra check ball can block the 4th apply servo feed.

    Clutch orifice cup plug (238) not fully pressed in.

    Symptom - SLIP/FLARE IN ANY GEAR

    Causes –

    Pump slide inner spring (207) or outer spring (206) omitted causing a slow slide response.




    Symptom - NO 3RD

    Causes –

    Clutch orifice cup plug (238) blown out.

    Symptom - HARSH 1-2 UPSHIFT

    Causes –

    4-3 sequence valve (383) stuck in bore by sediment.


    Symptom - NO 2-3 UPSHIFT

    Causes –

    2-3 shift valve (368) or 2-3 shuttle valve (369) stuck in bore by sediment.

    Symptom - NO 3-4 UPSHIFT

    Causes –

    3-4 shift valve (385) stuck in bore by sediment.



    Service Information

    Refer to the appropriate Service Manual for replacement procedures.

    Warranty Information

    Labor Code: Refer to Labor Time Guide for correct labor operation. Please use the closest available labor operation for the diagnosis performed.

    GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information. WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
     
  7. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    Thanks, I'll have to wade through that later. I have a 4l60E that sets P1870 once-in-awhile. It has been doing this for the last 8 yrs/80K miles, so I feel confident in saying P1870 isn't always a horrible problem with that trans.
     

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