87 built 318 falls on face

Discussion in 'Domestics' started by KrazyK-nampa, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. kev2

    kev2 wrench

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    Everything else being good - fuel pressure* - timing, float level etc - I would look at carb power valve
    What is vacuum at idle? esp as the cam is getting long in duration.

    I Am guessing no EGR yes/ no ?

    *this is a carb so not much is needed. We have a FI mindset.
     
  2. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    1 last pic, im pretty proud of this truck. But off 2 work i go. Will get back w/ some better answers later today nickb2 thanks again[​IMG]
     
  3. billr

    billr wrench Staff Member

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    So many words (and mud) flying around, I hesitate to jump in and "muddy" the picture any more, but...

    Free-revving won't tell much. It takes so little power to do so that an engine would have to be running horribly to not sound like it is free-revving well.

    It probably does not matter, but is that cam duration "advertised", or the effective duration at .050" valve lift?

    Like Kev, I'm wondering about the EGR. Have you tried just blocking it off?

    The "ESC" is Electronic Spark Control"? It sounds like bastardizing that is the root of your problem. Put it back to pure stock if you can not get away with any "emissions related" mods. But it sounds like that isn't the case, really, since you now have a vac advance can hanging out there?

    I think the emissions-testing concerns are key here. Do they inspect for installed equipment, looking for stock or an authorized substitute for everything? And also do a sniff test? And is that loaded on a dyno or just free-revving/idling? Depending on the answers to those questions, I may have more on the subject...

    Personally, I would not waste time and money on any dizzy-based ignition mods for this "toy"; MSD or otherwise. Leave it stock, if required, or move on to a wasted-spark direct ignition. V-8s simply run out of time for adequate coil dwell with a single-coil (dizzy) when speed gets above 5000 rpm. All those tricks with dual points, "multiple sparks", capacitive-discharge, etc. where rendered obsolete with the advent of DIS. You could install a MegaSquirt ECU on there for about $500 if using it for spark only and have both endless control of the spark curves and real-time display and logging of what the spark advance is. Later, if you finally move past the carb, most of the EFI install would already be done...
     
  4. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    I agree on all counts, including mine. But I am thinking about the EGR. It is electronically controlled by the SCC on these trucks.

    So if I read right, there no longer has a SCC here to control EGR.
    I am also having a hard time finding documentation on 1987 318's that did not have vac spark advance controlled by the SCC and that only one connector to the dizzy.

    But this having an edelbrock intake, 4bbl carb 750cfm edelbrock also. Also, now we know it did not have a vac adv dist before, now it does, it is getting hard to advise.

    My initial take on this was to just bare bone it as much as possible with a good MSD kit that can be found on e-bay or used and basically just wire in the few leads needed and just tape back all the rest of the emmision lean burn and ESC stuff. But that seems to be done already if Krazy says it pretty much only has an exhaust manifold left that is stock.

    So I also am thinking, was the EGR reinstalled in this project? If so, how in the heck is it being controlled? Is the emissions sticker still visible in the hood of this truck?

    So this is a disclaimer, because canadian emissions were not like calif equipped. I may throw into the weeds here. Back in those days, canadian models varied greatly from USA models in that regards. Nowdays, pretty much all is similar. Back then, it was a nightmare fixing a USA car/truck for us northern techs.

    I remember when I started in this trade back then, we would get USA models and just rip everything emissions related out. Nobody cared. Going to canadian tire to buy MSD kits were as common as blocking of EGR ports and ripping out as many vacuums as we could that weren't necessary to the function of the engine.
     
  5. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Another mopar gadget we would rip out was the orifice spark advance control which controlled the vacuum going to the dizzy. That thing was only to reduce NOx.

    So again, this having an aftermarket carb, did it have this orifice vac spark control or not. I assume not since the dizzy was non vac.

    So, as Billr says, before I muddy up this whole thing, more info from Krazy will be needed.
     
  6. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    In this picture, we can easily see the orifice vac control for the distributor. Screenshot (107).png
     
  7. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Ok sorry guys havent been able to get on here. But had a few mins this morning and found apparently i didnt get rid of all esc crap but tried plugging vac lead to esc diaphragm and plugged vac signal to egr and still "flat" but definitely moving in right direction. So now if i unplug vac to esc shouldnt computer go into a default mode?
     
  8. kev2

    kev2 wrench

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    what dist are you using?
    I ASSUMED it was conventional just a vac and mech advance not ESC controlled? my bad*
    There is an EGR? - and it is now disabled for testing am I correct?

    BUT "falling on its face" has me thinking carb.

    *reading comprehension again..... likely old age
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  9. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    We have rebuilt carb 2x first time was with build of motor, 2nd time was after a serios mudding trip.... When i first got the truck customer had taken 2 bbl intake/carb off and put 4bbl on and lost alot of parts in process. We had to get an egr valve for it and had to drill it into intake manifold.
     
  10. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Sorry phones acting up. But b4 installing egr we had this same "flat spot" or engine bog as some would call it. The first time rebuilding carb i did it myself as its a pretty straight forward carb. But that got us nowhere so i thought "maybe we just couldnt get the gunk out of carb" so this time i took it to another shop that specializes in carbs. And had it vatted and rebuilt again... Same outcome.
     
  11. kev2

    kev2 wrench

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    I am not questioning the carb rebuild - I think maybe its the carb setup/adjustment.... that is a big carb.

    What is the idle vacuum?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  12. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    I kinda thought 750 was big but with the mods we would b ok. I got a cheap "spectra"dist. w/vac adv from oreilly helped a little but just likes resting its teeth on the pavement i guess.lol
     
  13. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    Emissions tags and vac diag on truck[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Why would you even do that??
     
  15. KrazyK-nampa

    KrazyK-nampa Full Member

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    We installed egr trying to kill engine bog to begin with and good ol emission standards . edelbrock said it would work and only dif is their other opt was pre drilled
     

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