alternator charging, no voltage regulation

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#1
Make
chrysler
Model
200
Year
2015
Miles
???
Engine
3.6l
Hi guy's, another problem at work, this one has me stumped a bit. Databases are contradicting each other.

I have a chrysler 200, year 2015, engine is a 3.6l. It is a Police sleeper with an auxiliary system, but even with breaker open for the auxiliary power tripped, still no voltage regulation. I am most sure chrysler did not make a police pack for this model. So I am assuming it is stock aside from the normal police accesories such as radar, whelan, strobes and such, but again, when I trip the breaker, all that stuff is out of play.

Problem is, EVR circuitry is in the PCM. First, when I went on Mitchel, the connector view was ok, but pin notation was backwards. That led me on a wild goose chase of 1+ hrs before I realized there was a mistake in the mitchel database. So I switched to Alldata, that gave me same connector, but pin location were different and made more sense.

Here is what my alldata gives for a 2013, same as a 2015. At work, I am up to date, but since I am at home, I am using 2013, but circuits are same IMHO. Notice C2 of pcm, pin 1 starts at lower right hand, on mitchel, #1 started upper left hand. So you all can understand that I was getting no joy in testing. But problem is, my field control pin 2 is there and have continuity, but my field sense pin 40 is non existent.

My boss tells me we changed the alternator back in may on this sleeper police car, so it was regulating until the other day when the car came to the shop on the float.

Although both mitchel and alldata tell me to check pins 2 and 40, I cannot check that as there is no pin in cavity 40. I quadrupled checked. So WTF am I supposed to do? I wanted to install an external VR so see if I could get it regulating again, but the police force frowns on modifying their cars and I am afraid the PCM with see my modification and code as such. Any ideas?

Could it be that both data bases got it wrong for pin 40?

Here is a snapshot of said connector at PCM Screenshot (240).png Screenshot (241).png

.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#2
Of note, I notice there is a resistor in the alternator for the field control. I was tempted to call for another alternator since I know we put a reman unit back in may. But since I cannot confirm the integrity of the field/EVR external circuit pins 2 and 40, I am iffy of just throwing another alt in there and still getting no joy. That alt is not fun to swap out. Screenshot (242).png
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#3
I could have a fusible link that blew on the sense circuit, but I have no way of knowing that since I can't locate the pin in cavity 40. I removed cap of C2 connector, no wire there at all. Just non existent.

Does any one here have a proper chrysler diagram? I was under the impression alldata used OEM wiring whereas mitchel does not.

I think just for sanity sake, I will put in an external VR just like I used to do with the old caravans, sundances, etc back in the day with the big as$ PCM with the airflow tubes next to the battery. They blew internal VR's all the time, and we would wire in a external VR to save the client a PCM. Worked like a charm, but that was back in the 90's. This is a 2015. Not sure the internal checking these new pcm's have will like that modification. Has any one tried that yet on these newer models?
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,041
Likes
60
Points
48
#4
I'm thinking the alt is so hard to get to that you haven't checked voltages at that end? Same for continuity checks of the harness? Yeah, I know you don't have any "pin 40" end of the harness to check. So, you have to find what color the F wire is at the alt and start tracing it. No fun, I know.

As to errors in the manuals, I can easily believe that two different "sources" have the same error. Let's face it, neither publication has vast teams that "reverse-engineer" everything for the info provided. They are relying on data from the OEMs and will faithfully parrot whatever errors are in the original documents.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
3,401
Likes
43
Points
48
Location
Kentucky
#5
Circuits K20 and A804 seem to have the same wire color. So look at all wires to PCM connectors. How many wires are RD/GY? Let's pretend you found one at Pin 12 in connector C1. So look through your info to figure out the function of the wire at Pin 12, C1. If that checks out to be correct, check out any other wires with the same color. Try to find one that is "at the wrong place". It will be at the right place, but Service Information disagrees.
This kind of inspection makes sense if access to ALT is so difficult that you cannot more easily check for the actual presence or wire colors of Circuits K20 and A804.
 
Last edited:

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#6
I'm thinking the alt is so hard to get to that you haven't checked voltages at that end? Same for continuity checks of the harness? Yeah, I know you don't have any "pin 40" end of the harness to check. So, you have to find what color the F wire is at the alt and start tracing it. No fun, I know.
Well, that is the brunt of it, you read my mind.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#8
But as friday was coming to a close, weekend for the boys and I is paramount, we need to save energy for the next work week, I just closed the books on this one, and thought I would put this put there in cyber BAT auto space.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#9
I know what I will do tomorrow morning, knew that from the get go once I found the flaw in both data bases. AT LEAST i KNOW PIN 2 IS OK, TRACING BACK THE 40 WIRE, shyte, hit caps locks, yeah, tracing that will be fun, but a must do, and if my boss gives me grief, I will just tell him to put on his coveralls and do the damn job himself cuz I have no more patience for all the overtime I am doing for the guys that are on vacation and I am stuck taking up the slack.
 
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
4,770
Likes
46
Points
48
Age
118
#10
hey Nick - sorry very short on time- this is a diagram I have for a 2015 - 200 3.6 - TRY a Hail Mary reset the BCM - old days just remove the IOD fuse now its disconnect battery.... then the tipm is where to start...
then the field control VPWM grd... finally the intelligent battery connector on battery - I have NOT seem how to test these amd not all vehicles have them...
 

Attachments

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,470
Likes
134
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#11
Well, found the brn/gry wire for field control. I installed an external voltage regulator. No joy, only leaves me to believe that the resistor blew in the "new" reman unit. Will be installing another alt tomorrow. That is my only logical conclusion. Wish I could disassemble the reman unit to check my theory, but I have to return it as is to get warranty for core.


Will update tomorrow with results.
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,041
Likes
60
Points
48
#12
Clarify: does "no regulation" mean no alt output (0v on alt bat term), or does it mean the voltage goes too high?

While you are down there to pull the alt, remove the sense and field wires to it and check output voltage with a meter one last time (engine running). If output is high with sense and field wires disconnected, the alt is bad. If it is 0V, then short the F term on the alt to ground and see if output shoots high. If it does go high, then the alt is OK and you are still chasing wiring problems...