Crank/NO start

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Jan 5, 2019
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#1
Make
Honda
Model
Accord
Year
2004
Miles
226000
Engine
2.4
Hi,
I have a 04 honda accord lx 2.4, for starters the vehicle just had a timing chain replacement, complete kit. i pulled the timing chain cover to make sure that it was installed properly and all timing marks from the crank up match perfectly. I have one code p139, i have zero volts going into the coils but they all have a good ground.the crank sensor has power going in, all four connectors on fuel rail have power going in, battery is new, dash lights come on, there is a light that indicates the vehicle needs service. under the dash #2 fuse is good but no voltage, the main relay is good but only .77volts.
I am far from being a mechanic and over my head, any help would greatly be appreciated.
 

grcauto

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#2
That has a chain and not belt? That code is not right format. Should be Pxxxx
 

kev2

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#4
code should not cause a no start
P0139 Rear Secondary HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 2) Slow Response ('03-04 models)

With a gauge what is FUEL PRESSURE?
What codes are you getting on scanner?
 

nickb2

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#6
One of the most common failures in acruas and honda is the main relay. Really? Which one?

To term that correctly, the PCM FI main relay. Which is not fuse #2 in the underdash fuse/relay/MICU.

So which main relay are you checking on fuse #2 of MICU?

Cuz wiring tells me the relay related to that fuse #2 is called ignition coil relay.

So that would very much account for a no start.

So lets focus there, and as Kev said/wrote before, the slow response code is irrelevant right now.

So, .77volts. Ok, on which pin#?

Here is a diagram associated to that. Tell us which pin you are reporting .77v. Key on or off also is important to know as this circuit is live straight from BAT + feed, through underhood fuse 19.

Question? Do you know how a relay works? If not, we will happily tell you how it works and how to check that. I see you have a voltage reading, which at least tells me you know how to turn on a meter. That was a joke and should be taken as such.

So, question is, when you turn the key on, do you have vehicle power on fuse 22 in under hood box? If so, go check fuse 19 of same box, if good there, then you need to know why only .77v is showing up on pins #1 and #4 of ignition coil relay.

The rest should ground out at key on for starting purposes. Once PCM see crank signal, the PCM grounds pin #3 of ig relay via an internal relay IN the PCM which is called MRLY relay. This is normally not an interchangeable part.

So seeing if relay gets ground to that pin #3 is essential. If you over look that, we are going to be here for a long time.

So to help and not hinder further, here are snapshots and pdfs. Mind you, I don't know you, but I still have not fixed my white on black pdfs, but they are still readable so you will have to bear with that. Cuz lately, I seem to be the only source here for wiring's and flow charts. Jim was good at that, but life proably got in the way of very important things to do in life.

Still miss that man.

Screenshot (301).png
 

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nickb2

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#7
Quick tip for checking relay function. Buy a dual led test light.

Have a helper, ideally your son or an apprentice. Pins 1 and 4 should have the red led lighting up, showing what wiring proves. Constant B+. Don't need the son at this point, just checking hot at all times verification.

Once son or apprentice cranks, move test light to pin 3 of ignition coil relay. If it goes green, you just eliminated the PCM as a culprit and cut down down diagnostic in more than half.

On this type of ignition system, it is not a waste spark, and wiring shows that.

Here is what a dual led test light looks like, and a very good addition to any tool box. However, be mindful, a led test light is only good for quick checking.

Ever since I bought the power probe IV. I am amazed at how much I relied on my old led testers.

But for a beginner, who doesn't have or feel the need to have the best tools, 15$ should buy you one at your local napa/autozone/etc parts store. Or you can make one yourself if you are so inclined. Much easier than you think.

Being a good tech relies only on risk assessment and finding time saving skills. Oh, and an analytical mind. Most ppl should know that, and obviously, if you took the time to measure voltage, your in the game already. Way ahead of most actually.;)

So if your anything like me, don't attack a problem if your well into a 12pack of canadian style beer. Not the light american stuff, I could drink that all day and it will only affect my mind at beer # 48. Who in their right mind actually buys 3% beer?

But that is for another debate. Here are some links.

Mind you, the following video is psychedelic. SO if you see that big FBI warning harping on copy right rules, if it is on youtube, your golden. But if you just smoked some quebec gold, may want to wait a few minutes before watching this video.

 

nickb2

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#9
If you don't know how to use one (power probe, I meant), be very careful when loading a ECM/PCM circuit, as you may/probably fry the PCM if your on the wrong/back end of a short.

But with the new power probe 4, it was enhanced and has a now integrated current limiter the previous version did not have.

I was so damned intent on not buying anymore diag tools, and for years I would see other techs whipping out the power probe, then scratching their heads asking themselves what went wrong. So I resisted the urge to buy or make my own. And when I say resisted, I mean resisted in a viking sort of way. Much like my refusal to own a cell phone for personal use. Again, just another useless debate. I just refuse to be reachable at all times, cuz my big friend, the pope, is not texting me everyday, so I see no need for that polluting my already f upped life.

So I made my own leads for years, with x resistors and such. But they became a hassle with the hybrid systems that rely on high voltage and current.

The dual test light is and still will always be my go to tool before I whip out a scope or high end scanner.

Best diag tool I invested in lately, a 200ish$$ high amp current claw. Does 600-1000dc AND ac.

Co-worker the other day was scratching his head. Why won't this volks diesel not start in the morning at cold start up? Common things that come to mind, glow plugs.

Best way to check in 2 mins? Whip out the amp claw and ask son or apprentice to put key on. If you see 80amps or more when glow plug dash light is on, and it is a 4 banger, glow plugs fine, look elsewhere.


This principle should apply for every electrical circuit. Ohm's law and all that.

Another really good tool, picks. Often a bad connection may cause voltage drops etc. Often, they are not due to corrosion, but loose connections. This is where a tube of di electric grease and something like this shines. 15$ for the tool, and you have it for life.

The I bought is this one, use it every day, repeat, every day. But before, I would make my own out of cotter pin and a grinding wheel. http://www.olct.co/lisle/57750-wire-terminal-removal-kit
 

nickb2

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#10
I think I just hijacked this thread, but bear with me all, I will probably just copy paste it in a new thread called tips and tricks and cool tools you REALLY need. .

But since I am on a roll, links are saved to pc, it is easier to do this in this format since I have to switch my mind back to work on mode.

Work on mode means, I actually have to wake up tomorrow and face the fact I CHOSE this trade and have to deal with that to pay bills. After two weeks off, all my skin on my hands itch and basically, my callouses are gone. Damn, that means I sat for too long on the sofa.

Actually, my ex wife used to be a day care person. She would come home and harp she could not hear another child scream or she would go nuts if I even remotely sounded like a child. Being the arse that I am, I said, try working in my environment. Shop so busy, the decibels rate a full blown air plane landing area on a air craft carrier. 30k feet over her head. I tried doing free work for a kid day activity. One of which invoked bringing the tow truck. There was a fire engine and a cop car. And yes the tow truck.

Obviously, every kids wanted to hear the sirens and see the guns or ladders.

Tow truck was not on the high priority of the list of things kids want to see on "what do your parents do for work day!!"

But I did get a sense of what it is like to have 30 grubby kids just yammering for attention.

I told ex GF, I wouldn't do your job unless it was life critical. Like asteroids hitting the planet soon critical.
 

nickb2

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#11
For fathers in the know. A jacked up mustang is not a soothing thing for a child with teeth trying to split the gums and your eardrums.

I found that my son went very fast asleep to the sound of a good old nissan stanza. I bought two of those.

He didn't like my dodge colts. Maybe cuz I put turbos in one or two of the three I bought.

Jokes, no, it was one turbo, the other failed in a large way, forgot to change axle ratio for the hundred extra HP thrown at them with stock parts.

A mechanic will do what he does, if it fits, works, and screams like a banshee, good to go. Not so good for a new born.

For the beginner, I do not recommend an auto range meter. I would start with a basic 20$ meter you have to swtich ranges. This way, you get a feel of what you are doing and how it affects a circuit.
 

nickb2

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#13
Link to what I consider a one handed smacker.

3pnds should be sufficient enough to get any thing done. Unless you suffer from emphysema. I like this type, it does not slip out of your free hand when some idiot boss askes you for the 15th time if your done yet.

That scenario usually ends up with the shop foreman asking why the front counter guy is MIA.

https://www.amazon.ca/Estwing-MRF3L...ocphy=9000537&hvtargid=pla-569148353880&psc=1
 

nickb2

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#14
When I will be done with this hijacked thread, it will soon become apparent, you don't need a 30 grand tool box to do even half of what is required of what mainly comes in the shop doors.

In the socket dept, just buy anything that is lifetime. A snap on will round off as easily as a craftsmen or similar. Actually, the macs and snaps are designed to round. Cheaper lifetime ones will just split.

Since you bought three sets of the cheap ones, you don't have to wait two weeks for the truck tool guy.

Added bonus, on your way to get the six pack of beer and milk for the wife, you can stop by and just dump all those split ones without having to sign a marriage contract. :cool:;):money::eek: