Manual Transmission OIL

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#1
Please fill out the following to ask a question.

MAKE: Chevrolet
MODEL: Cruze
YEAR: 2012
MILES: 45,363
ENGINE
: 1.4 L turbo
DESCRIBE ISSUE....

GM 2012 owners manual says nothing about changing the manual transmission, but in 2013 and up models, say it should be changed every 45,000 mile using GM part #19259104. Dealer charges 40 bucks for a quart of this stuff, uses 2.5 quarts, so have to purchase 3 quarts for over 120 bucks with tax.

Other transaxles vehicles just used convention engine oil for lubrication, have to agree synthetic is superior, far more moisture resistant and doesn't foam. Even my Volvo outdrive, extremely expensive recommends conventional engine oil.

I checked mine, looks as good as the day they put it in, and in my opinion, looks, feels, and even taste like Mobile One dexos that is more like $4.50 per quart.

Did a net search, only oil I could find that claims to meet the GM part #19259104 specification is Royal Purple HPS 5W-30 for $8.30 per quart. Is GM pulling something?

Never said anything about changing the transmission oil in our old 04 Calvalier, put over 150K miles on that transmission, never touched it, still in great shape, but couldn't say the same thing about the unibody with road salt being converted into a pile of unsafe rust.

What are your thoughts on changing MT transmission oil, and why 40 bucks a quart that appears to be just a synthetic engine motor oil.
 
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nickb2

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#2
If Royal purple states it meets the GM requirements, go with the 8,50$ quarts. Gm can't void any warranty as the product states it meets or exceeds the GM requirements.

As for GM pulling something, aren't they all?:p

However, I could not find any intervals for the cruze m/t on alldata, but yes, gm states 45k miles. See pdf. I included this for others who may fall on this thread.

45000m or 72000km's seems about right. Powertrain warranty is most likely 60months/5yrs or 100000miles.

Prolab oils would probably meet or exceed also.

Found this while reading for your question. From here.
http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377064

Not my writing.

Being curious and the owner's manual being unhelpful, I put in an email to GM asking what fluid my Cruze's M32 6-speed manual transmission takes. It's a valid question considering the nearest GM dealers are 20+ miles away, and I don't routinely go by them.

Here's a paste of the applicable sections of the email:


"Greetings from the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center! This is a follow-up regarding your inquiry on GM part number 19259104.


I was able to verify that the only thing you need to check on non-GM manual transmission fluids is that is should meet the GM Dexron VI specifications."

So my Cruze takes Dex-VI in its MT. And we've analyzed that fluid 6 ways from yesterday. At least it makes assembly at Lordstown a bit easier to only use 1 fluid no matter what. It also opens up a lot of full-syn options to replace the semi-syn Petro-Canada Dex-VI this spring once the car has more miles on it.

I thought it was interesting, and wanted to share.
 

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nickb2

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#3
So there seems to be some conflicting things going on. I did refer to the Royal purple reference chart, it does state HPS or XPR 5w30 is the recommended replacement for GM part #19259104.

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/...le_Transmission_Lubricant_Cross_Reference.pdf

However in the link in reply above, from Bob the oil guy, GM wrote back to this guy stating that the GM part #19259104 was in fact DEXRON VI and anything that meets this requirement is safe.

Which one is it? HPS/XPR 5w30 or dex VI? I did see the GM fluid going for 26$ on sale a few places on line (+ shipping mind you) instead of the 39$. Still astoundingly expensive.

That is a 80$ oil change for that tranny for two pints.

Confusing reading on the net.
 
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#4
Been reading these debates over the internet, some about synchro modifiers being added to the manual transmission fluid. 04 Cavalier called for ATF fluid, saw no reason to change it, still nice and clear and red with over 150 K miles, was a Getrag transmission, 5 speed, is the Cruze any different?

Also say to replace the drain plug, see no reason for this, did have to on my Cruze crankcase. While I did torque it to exactly 10 ft-lbs, that cheapass diecast 10 mm hex broke off with hardly a tiny push. Replaced it with a three buck Dorman with a 11/16" hex made of solid steel, and works perfectly. Dealer want 20 bucks for that POS drain plug that came with the car.

Feel this bit on the MT fluid is all BS so they can charge 120 bucks plus labor just to change the MT fluid. Some guys paid 200 bucks for this. Ha, never hit 36K on that three year BB warranty, only five months left on the five year, won't even hit 50K miles, have other vehicles to drive.

Should advertise, you want problems, we have problems, you want BS, we have plenty of this.
 

nickb2

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#5
Still doesn't answer the initial question!! What should guy's be putting in their M32's?

Is it Dex VI? Or full syn 5w30.

As for the drain plug, you are probably not the first, nor last, to yelp on that flimsy drain plug.

Labor for this should not exceed a half hour at most. Hoisting the car level is probably the most time consuming thing here!! 200$ for a 2 pint oil change on a manual transmission of this sort is completely ridiculous.

Any money minding, smart thinking person would realize that paying 40$ per pint is just plain nuts. Add to that conflicting information regarding the GM part #19259104. Who in their right mind would pay 200$ for a 2 pint oil change???:confused:

This is not rocket science and GM is contracted under law with castrol if memory serves right. So that "special fluid" is made by castrol. Not by "NASA"

In my most humble opinion, it is a syncromesh trans. Anything that resembles a GL4 rating will suffice.

Redline products more than meet the GL4 guide lines for this MT. As do Royal purple and prolab and other popular high end oils.

Amsoil offers same. On a funny note, I could probably change out that fluid and put in walmart recycled 5w30 engine oil and many or most folks wouldn't even know it. Hell even cooking oil with a pro lab additive would probably suffice to mesh those gears for a short (not recommended BTW) while. That was a joke, but probably true in some form.
 

nickb2

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#6
Not my writing but thought it would give food for thought for those who understand viscosity and syncromesh tranny's.

Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's, Updated 8/12/2015:

A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.xcSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70W to 75W or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC

5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 cSt@100C versions (About the same viscosity as a the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2

7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt


H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF


I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt


J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90

5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS

7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt


H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF


I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt


J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90

5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS

7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
 

billr

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#7
The sad part of this is that use of fancy lubes is probably related more to eking out another billionth of a mpg than anything else. "Economy", at any cost.

I first saw ATF in a manual trans in '63, a new Plymouth PU truck. We thought it was pretty strange...
 

nickb2

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#9
Yeah Bill. I saw we posted at same time. But the CAFE and other similar associations bring about this.

My question to you is, what is better, eking out a billionth of a MPG or asking ppl under a warranty gun to change their oil when it is very suitable for longer periods of time.

What is more eco friendly? Forcing ppl through ignorance to blindly follow or keeping them informed.

I find a client who is well informed will most always make a educated choice in regards to his/her environment GIVEN THE CHOICE!!

But that is for another debate I guess.
 

nickb2

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#10
I will have to do some research to see what type of syncro's are in the M32. If paper/ cellulose, normal dex 3 should suffice. With newer designs such as with kevlar and such, it is good to know, as we can see which additives will actually help and not hinder the trans.

So again here is where I get angry because friction modifiers are completely different from an engine oil to a ATF oil.

So WHAT FREAKIN oil is actually in this M32?
 
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#11
Can't find any replacement parts for the Cruze MT, just buying a whole brand new one. Not keeping up with the times, synchros use to be brass and cost a buck to replace.

Most of the guys are complaining about hard shifting and blaming the transmission fluid of this. Wasn't a problem with older vehicles, stick went directly into the transmission. But sure is a problem with FWD with all that extra linkage, about every three months, have to spray mine with Liquid Wrench lubricant, WD-40 is worthless. Though about removing that linkage and add zerk fittings, ha, way too much work.

Another problem is hydraulic clutches, nice, self adjusting, but if you don't have that one inch of free play, and not fully disengaging the clutch, this is your problem. Also use to use a separate reservoir for the clutch master cylinder, got rid of that, now sharing the service brake reservoir, more problems.
 

nickb2

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#12
Since this is a open discussion thread, I will say I want to kill somebody today.

My Marin carbon fiber bike got stolen last night. The fact that it got stolen is a non issue, I am just insulted that they got through the chain.

The bike is probably worth maybe 500$ now , I could not give a shyte. I am just frustrated that someone came and actually took the time to figure out how to steal it.

So this is me venting steam. I called the cops, there is only one bike like mine in my region. The policeman was very kind and we had a good laugh when I told him I would kick the sucker sideways if I saw my bicycle. He said to call the police, I said I probably won't have time if I see the sucker. He said leave some for us. I said no, but legally, he said I could restrain the guy/girl and with the plaint # I would be fine.

Karma is a bitch, I stole two bike when I was an adolescent. Now my GF has had three bikes stolen on my back yard, and now my marin. Went to the pawn shop today bought pos Bonelli.
 
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#13
Can register your bikes in town, but if the culprit is not from town and removes your bike, worthless.

Often stated a true luxury vehicle is a rusted out 81 Ford pickup with a good drivetrain and the bed loaded with manure. When parked, nobody will even get near it, but with something nice, will bang their cars doors into it or even key it. How about getting hit with a shopping cart?

Same holds true with bikes.
 

nickb2

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#14
Nickd, I must say. The only time I bought a brand new car, the only thing I could think about was insurance.

I was proud that it only had 3 km's. I said to my wife of the time, the dude didn't even test drive it.

Useless. 6000 or so down the tubes.

That did not even the down-payment. 360 per months, with condo payment to boot.

Add to that tax fees. Paying for three titles and running full octane.

Box car 302 and eagle talon in conjunction with a few nissan sentras and a mini van 7 place.

Money coming out of my ears and no idea what to spend it on.

Lesson learned. Never bring a girl to the drag strip.

http://jalopnik.com/5915461/the-ten-most-embarrassing-drag-racing-moments-caught-on-video/
 
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#15
Insurance? Put seven kids through college, used was the only way to go, comprehensive and collision was out of the question.

Never thought I would be driving Chevy's, last two new cars were, 04 Cavalier was 7,200 bucks plus tax with my GM card and rebates, not so good on the 2012 Cruze 2LT, 15,500 bucks plus tax. Used rentals were much higher than this, GM card no good, no warranty.

Buick's and Cadillac's use to be just a few bucks more than a Chevy, with the government taking over how cars are made, 20K more for a Buick, 40K more for a Cadillac CTS. Same large throwaway unibody, CTS did over one inch more of rear seat floor space, but you see the same thing with an Accura or a Lexus, same POS body, just a much larger engine you can't even use, and a bunch more of cheap made in China electronic crap for even more problems.

And the fuel economy really sucks, we had gas prices here as high as $4.55 per gallon, with hints may go up to six.

With my 65 Buick, rebuilt that fuel pump several times, for a buck, new blower motor brushes were a quarter. Been hit with prices for made like crap in China, 450 bucks for a fuel pump, 300 bucks for a blower motor you can't even repair, this is only the beginning.