P-30 454 CID fuel feed problems.

Discussion in 'Heavy Truck & Equipment Forum' started by NickD, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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  2. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Since I am an idiot when it comes to testing, does this old 82 P-3 454 have to pass smog testing or can you just go the route I just advised. At 50 to 70 dollars a header, sound to me the upgrade to performance headers would be best, You may loose a 1$ here or there on MPG`s, but you will have more pull.

    I guess I am just throwing ideas out there.

    As for your tanks not switching, did you ohm the switch or is this a automatic design that does it like a jaguar.

    If the two links above seem different is because one is for left and the other for right, but I gather you saw that. Hope you had a good time and have all winter to fix the kinks out on this old family wagon.
     
  3. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Btw, I do know they sell new multi layer manifold gaskets, but they are way expensive and as you know, getting in there is hard, and your old bones may hurt. So tell me, if you want, cuz after the years here, you have always scoffed at me and never really wanted to respond, just ask yourself,

    can you say hi to me for once and we can consider what is best for your P-30 and YOUR needs.

    Regards

    Nickb2
     
  4. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Think the only way to remove that 454 from this Pace Arrow, is to remove the entire body off of it first.
    Ha, told myself if the water pump goes on this thing will junk it, took me darn near a half a day to replace the three V-belts. When you open the hood, all you see is that huge radiator, with the engine cover removed, only see the rear half of the engine.

    Seems to be a dying means of entertainment, wife insisted I make reservations for our campsite, when we got up there, was only two other campers, park was deserted. But still have fun looking for motorhomes, see units with a brand new sticker price of $350,000, then used one, three years old with only 12K on the odometer that can't even get $150K for.

    Around here, RV dealers charge 125 bucks an hour for labor, can't see how even people you can't do their own work can afford these things. But many of them are folding up, poor economy and the high price of fuel.
     
  5. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    On that particular RV that I wrote about, that Winnebago, getting to front of engine was a nightmare. I think the Pace Arrow and winnie`s shared the same design.

    Had to time engine by welding a new TDC. Cluster fu$k.

    I don`t have that kind of cash, but those who do, have no idea how to fix em. Need deep pockets.

    If the RV has a wifi connection, at least kids are happy.

    Regards
     
  6. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    I got under this thing yesterday, was getting no fuel from the front tank, seems I may have a slightly too shape of a bend in the fuel hose feeding that filter. Straightened it out now slightly running fine. Planning on putting the filter in a better location. Went to my Fleet Farm store to buy some new 5/16" fuel line hose. Not selling in bulk anymore, but putting two foot lengths in a plastic bag with a bar code on it and want five bucks. Use to be something like 25 cents a foot. This jumps to a 25 roll for $$$$, I only need about three feet. Time to do some more shopping.

    Remember when they put the three pieces, two male fittings and the double female coupler for a double flare connector in a bag for 49 cents? Now selling the parts individually at two bucks a piece. Had, to go everyplace in town to get the pieces I needed, some had the males, others had the female. But did find a premade brake line for a buck with the two male fittings on each end, so purchased those to save three bucks. World is going crazy.
     
  7. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Fixed, tossed in a couple of bottles of Heet in the rear tank, and installed a short piece of Gates 5/16" inch fuel line for the front tank. Kind of nice to have two fuel tanks to select from, also two fuel pumps in series in case one decides to die. Only filled the tanks from gas stations that I knew were good. Away, either the front or the rear, never both.

    Fun to drive, can scare the heck out of all these large SUV's and Pickup trucks, but not so fun when driving a compact car.
     
  8. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Am, wondering, from brand new, where those pumps in parallel?

    I would assume so to fuse each one in case, and have a different ground so one tank could still strive fuel if a fuse or pump decided to blow. I would not want to drive both pumps in series. :eek: Your writing, also two fuel pumps in series in case one decides to die

    Maybe I am not seeing the actual wiring in my head. Kudo's on the re-routing with new rubber. Smart!!;):bat:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  9. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Dual pumps, in my opinion, should always be in parallel. If they are in series, the whole thing goes she-bang.

    Maybe I am missing something here.

    So for fun here is she-bang. LOL, Just a joke

     
  10. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    These are electric right??
     
  11. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    For years, the EPA was not messing with RV's, commercial vehicles, but really pushing on little private vehicles. Well not that many years, EPA started all this in 1972, this is a 1982. Has, no EGR valve, getting by with closing the exhaust valves early, fixed, not like later vehicles with variable, but apparently enough so you will not burn out the exhaust valves. No catalytic converters on this thing, comes with factory dual exhaust. Exhaust pipe, muffler, and a tail pipe on each side.

    Its a low speed high torque engine, headers wouldn't help that much, 3,000 rpm is just about tops.

    Bit wrong on that engine driven fuel pump, would be dead if the diaphragm did break. To be on the safe side, replaced it with a brand new Made in the USA Carter fuel pump that you can buy today for 18 bucks, compare this with that POS tiny little fuel pump in like my 88 Supra uses where my crooked Toyota dealer wants 450 bucks for!

    Use to be just one inlet and outlet on these mechanical pumps, but this caused vapor lock, this one has two outlets, one to the carb, other returns to the fuel tank for a constant recirculation of the fuel to solve this vapor lock problem.

    Have to admit, the electricl fuel pump is a bit of a mystery, an inline pump with an inlet and an outlet, looks just like looking through a small tube, so does not interfere with the mechanical pump when off. But when switched on pumps like crazy. Don't recall the name, but purchased an identical one for my boat. Thing is, when these things sit for awhile, the carb bowl runs dry, and may have to crank the engine for 30 seconds or so to fill it up. But switching on the pump for about ten seconds, hit the key and the engine starts instantly.

    Pace Arrow has another reason for mounting this extra pump and even has a switch on the dash to fire it up. That rear tank is so far back there, the mechanical pump cannot handle it, and will stall when going up a hill.

    Dash has a DPDS on it, top selects the fuel senders from either tank, bottom only has two wires on it, for the front tank energizes the tank valve to shut off the rear tank to the front tank. Feed gas is 5/16", fuel return is 1/4" hose. Looking at a hundred buck valve here, glad that is still good.

    This make sense?

    One thing that really tees me off, good always buy good gas, not even sure what we are buying today with an EPA with over 155 blends. Have to use ethanol free gas in this thing or will end up with a ton of corrosion. Pray that guy filling the tanks at these gas stations is half awake. But apparently got water in my rear tank, was running fine until I stopped at a gas station, and usually pick one that looks busy.
     
  12. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Ok, this took me some time to wrap my head around it. So, it is a 454 carburated engine. I am to young to be very familiar with this.

    So not the dual cats like I posted before. That was for a later model and I am sorry for that.

    Once I redid a jaguar with an old buddy of mine. We put a chevy engine in there. The dual tanks were a problem. It was an electrical fire that started this whole mess. As sad as this sounds, we put a race car tank in the trunk and routed wiring and hoses just to get this thing running. It did sound nice with that 350 in it. His GF was not to happy, no space in the trunk anymore. Oh well, at least she looked good driving that jag.

    Nickd, I will try to find a schematic for that pace arrow. I thought I had the right one.

    Right now, it is 6:56am, waiting on eggs and bacon, but I guess if the return line is blocked for some reason, that could be why you have a problem. As for when you go uphill and stall, I am pretty sure you are not an idiot, so those tanks are full. So that one also I will have to ponder.

    Is there a cut off switch? I will try to see, probably not, but with these old RV's, you never know. They are always a big ball of mystery once those beasts come under my thumb. Nothing is ever as it seems. BTW, I still have a pack of lozenges for the waste tank. I don't know what to do with that. Was thinking maybe I could give that to my good buddy for his cottage. What do you think? Good idea? Or bad for his reciptlce tank?
     
  13. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Funny story about gas stations, a client once came in, he said his beard would grow while trying to fill up after a fuel pump repair. He had the car towed to our garage on a friday night. So monday, we push the car in. Mind you, it was a -30c degree day.

    I had to cross the street and go buy a camera to actually take pictures so he could have proof. The gas tank was a frozen chunk. Just to take out the fuel pump was an endeavor. It was frozen in place.

    It ended up that the Sonic gas station actually reimbursed all the repairs that the water infiltration had done to his car. They said the driver of the gas truck had not correctly put back on the cover of one of the main tanks. Being that it was cold, road salt was the so called culprit to this 2000$ish fu$k up. Apparently, the tanker said he had put back the lid on correctly, but the ice had lifted the lid to the underground tank and the salt had melted the ice and had seeped into the main tanks. I pretty much batted my eyes at that one.

    There is no way that amount of water could seep into the main tanks. If that was so, many more cars would have been stalled in our parking lot.

    I even had to replace the intake, being that it was a plastic one, this car was a nissan altima v6. Also had to replace 2 injectors. The vent valve in the tank had warped from the expansion of freezing, that was why his beard would grow whilst tanking. I worked on this car for a week. In cold weather, water is a force to be reckoned with. It will split rock. Imagine what it does to aluminum or PVC plastic, let alone stamped steel tanks.

    So I was left to believe what the gas station said, I even had to go to small claims court for that job. That client came back 4 months later with a new nissan. We had a good laugh. He was a good client. I think he was a house seller or maybe I wrote that wrong, I did see his buisness cards and they said remax. Anyways, that was a good joke
     
  14. NickD

    NickD wrench

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    Learned something, my son goes up north a lot, told him about getting water in my gas from a Shell gas station, same town, same gas station, he also got water. Also have a Holiday gas station, says never had problems with that one and gets much better fuel economy.

    Did look at a 95 31 foot, Tripple E motorhome, really looked nice on the web, Ford 7.5L with FI, but sure looked weathered in person. Then thought, the one I got was 20 years old and all the work I had to do on this thing, practically all the rubber, hoses, belts, fuel, radiator, etc. was rotted away. This thing is also 20 years old, not sure if I want to go through all this again.

    Have all the shop manuals on the P-30, and all the manuals from Pace Arrow, was able to download all the manuals for the appliances. Took this photo at the park with the worse motorhome there next to the best, worse one is mine, but we have fun.

    Septic tanks are getting rare up here, DNR hates them, making everyone switch to holding tanks, not much different than a motorhome, but cost an arm and a leg for a truck to come over and empty them.
     

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  15. nickb2

    nickb2 Wrench. I help when I can

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    Yeah, took a look at that picture. That is a site for old eyes. Haven't seen one of those in years. I remember once (I say once but actually it was a 10yrs stint) camping out at my ex GF's dads camp site. Saw a Prevost bus hauling a 19 footer in tow, and two 2cycle bikes. Everyone dropped a jaw seeing this thing roll in, and in the 19footer, a harley to boot. Must have been at least 1million dollars right there.

    And the funny thing is, the guy was from taxas, the prevost bus and the 19 footer were airbrushed with cactus's and desert images. Wow, that guy rolled in style.

    So since I know you have all the manuals, I can now stop looking. They are not easy to find on line.

    By the way, what does DNR mean? I always thought that meant "do not remove" Is this a product you are referring to?

    Here is a link to the camping site I refereed to, and on the home page, you see the old trailer package that we had fun in on all those summer nights. I still remember cooking hot dogs on clothes hangers in that rusted bin. I am amazed that this is still the front page picture.

    http://www.campingdelajoie.com/carte.php

    One of the best camp sites up here.


    This were my son was conceived. :cool::)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015

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