Rear disc brake problems 2010 Camry

Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
1
#1
Make
Toyota
Model
Camry
Year
2010
Miles
89000
Engine
2.5L 4 Cyl
The left rear caliper was sticking (not retracting) after taking foot off brake. Decided to take it in to get fixed. They recommended calipers, rotors, hoses, and pads for both sides and that's okay, I realize they should be replaced in pairs. When the hoses were to be replaced, the fittings on the steel brake line wouldn't unthread from the caliper hoses on both sides, (L&R). It backed out only so far and stopped. They finally got the line out of the hose fitting, but said they had to cut the tip off the hard line and reflare so it would fit into the new hose. They said the flare was too wide inside the fitting and that's why it wouldn't come out. Then, the left side leaked when attempting to bleed the brakes after reflaring it. The reflaring was not working very well as the guy said the metal kept splitting every time he attempted to make a flare. I think it was either him or the tool that was the problem. Is it possible the fitting was over tightened at the factory in the hose end causing the flare to widen enough to prevent the flared steel line from releasing? The rear brakes were original. The fronts were serviced 2Y ago and in good condition. If the line can't be fixed and has to be replaced, does the fuel tank have to be dropped to access it? What do you think? Has anyone heard of something like this?
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,176
Likes
70
Points
48
#2
Unfortunately, we do hear about "something like this" from time-to-time... a job that seems to have been badly botched. Have you talked to the top management there, to see what they will do to rectify this? If it is a Toyota dealer, then elevate the issue to the regional rep. This should have been a pretty routine repair with no need to cut the hard line, much less have a problem re-flaring it.

I can't advise as to whether the tank has to come out.

If they don't seem chagrined, and eager to satisfy you, take it to another shop. Writing-off the cost already incurred will be better than trying to resolve this by fighting with a bad shop.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
1
#3
Thanks Bill, I was thinking the same thing. I took it to a tire shop where I've been buying tires for the last 10 years. The place is always busy so I felt I could trust a repair like this. The kid that worked on it, I would definitely ask for an ID if he was buying alcohol. So, I question his experience for having such difficulties. The owner was with him when I wanted to go see why it was taking so long and I think he knows more about what happened than he was willing to admit, but he doesn't want to lose money on this job. I was quoted $604 for parts, labor, and tax before things turned south. I dropped it off this past Tuesday morning and going on a week now with no car for a rear only brake repair. If I would have known this shop to be this filthy and inexperienced, I wouldn't have done this.
 

jd

Hero Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
521
Likes
24
Points
18
#4
I don't know if there's a word screen to keep me from saying This Sucks, but this sucks. I've heard that compression fittings as used on copper tubing won't work on brake likes, but I've also read, here, I believe, that there are now compression fittings for steel lines AND they work with brake lines. If that's true, then shop could run new lines that will connect to the new hoses, and connect with compression fittings. Other possibility is new line(s) from Toyota. You may want to check with Toyota to see what's available in terms of lines for your specific Camry.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
3,462
Likes
46
Points
48
Location
Kentucky
#5
I've seen "compression unions" on plenty of vehicles, looking like they had been installed many years ago, working without failure. I don't know what the surface of OP's line look like...I wouldn't try it on a line that had more than a tiny amount of rust.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
1
#6
The bad dream continues. I picked up the car yesterday and asked how they managed to get it fixed. The tech told me he used brake line that was unrolled and form fitted to the underside of the car and re- flared the ends. I asked why he just didn't get pre-bent lines from Toyota. He said he would have had to lower the fuel tank to do this. Maybe this is an acceptable repair, I don't know, but an exact replacement is available, (no bending, no cutting, no flaring). I believe they wanted the car gone and finished it off in a cheap manner just to make it work. I let him know I didn't like this and he said they do this a lot. CONSUMER BEWARE!!! I will never go back. I trusted that they would do a good job. From the outward appearance of the place I thought they had a clean, organized shop. When I went in there to check on the car Saturday I was shocked at the mess the place was in. I assumed the place was an ASE certified shop, NOT!!! The car's back, it doesn't leak, but I've got too much in it now to have it reworked. Life moves on.
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,176
Likes
70
Points
48
#7
I gotta ask... is the new line routed away from exhaust, moving parts, and protected from road hazards? Having it routed identical to the original isn't necessary, but having it safe is.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
1
#8
I gotta ask... is the new line routed away from exhaust, moving parts, and protected from road hazards? Having it routed identical to the original isn't necessary, but having it safe is.
My wife has the car at work today, but I'll look asap and let you know. There must be a proportioning valve somewhere underneath where the two lines couple in to towards the front of the car. I didn't see anything new at the ABS module. I guess no reason to go there, good thing! Thank you for your input and interest.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#9
First off, I have never seen rear hoses that needed replacing on these cars. This car is only 8yrs old.


Is it possible the fitting was over tightened at the factory in the hose end causing the flare to widen enough to prevent the flared steel line from releasing?
That is a big fat no.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#10
It backed out only so far and stopped.
Someone just didn't know how heat helps. I live in one of the harshest places for rust and stuff like this being from up north. We sure see our share of rust, but have yet to call on rear hoses for a 2010 corolla with only 89k. Heck, I see corrollas with 500k on a daily basis with original rear and front hoses. We just don't change those anymore. We used to see that of older 1990's chevy s10 and the like.

Can't remember the last time I changed a flexible hose unless "I BOTCHED THE JOB!!"
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#11
As for steel line, even those have gotten less problematic but you will see that from time to time.

And yes, black compression fittings are quite wonderful, but have heard they are outlawed in many states of the US of A. Here, no prob, kind of makes you wonder why when up here in the great white north, we get the worst condition's.

Maybe us Cannucks just know when to pull out a set of torches and heat a bit instead of just wrenching until your blue in the face cuz your scared of some acetylene torches and rather botch a job for lack of experience.

But as Billr said, we sure get our fair share of sob stories here, that is why I always like to tell ppl to stick with national shop with nation wide guaranties. Cuz that way, you can go down the street to another shop with same franchise name and still get warranty respect by law.

A shop is like a dentist. When you find a good one, stick with it.

Garage shopping for deals has always been the favorite of mine. I like hearing ppl tell me how all the technicians in this trade are out to screw them, when all I see is a dude looking for a cheap fix a whatever cost. Here is the result.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#12
Other fact, I have almost never changed a rear caliper on a toyota for NOT retracting. Usually, it is just the pads sticking due to lack of maintenance and lubrication.

If this was a mazda, or a nissan, well that is a whole different debate.

Stories like this piss me off because a class "A" tech like me cringes at what ppl like you tell their families when shyte like this happens about the rest of us in this trade. One bad apple doesn't make us all shoddy or lazy ppl. To often ppl don't research well enough a shop. That's where you get bitten.

Unfortunately, you signed off on the first estimate, when all I am sure was needed where rotors and pads and a good lub and maintenance of pins and pad holders.

A week without a car for a simple rear brake job is horrendous. I hope the shop was reputable enough to have a loaner car or two, but I imagine not being it is mostly a tire shop seeing what you wrote. I can understand a week or two without a car for a rear brake job if this was a 1961 jaguar e type, not one of the most common cars on the road today such as a japanese corolla.

Ok, nuff of my rant of the day.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#13
Edit, I know I wrote corrola, but camry is even better and still never changed a rear hose on those, or a front one and calipers almost never NOT retract.

It's always just jammed up pads or pins which can be redone with proper tooling and experience. I don't know why ppl call for useless parts. The profit in doing the job right with less parts far outweighs the margin of profit on re manufactured calipers which will probably give out anyway in a very short time.

I rather charge an hour or two labor reworking oem parts than having a quick turnover and then expecting customer back in the VERY near future on my dime for some chinese rebuilt shyte. At least back in the day, I could get stuff rebuilt down the street in the good old CANADA by a guy I went to school with in kindergarten. Now, all stamped rebuilt in singapor or philipines, so even then, paying for shipping and paying a premium. Funny how it written premium on the box, but when you turn it over, written rebuilt in china. Wow, shipping alone is huge, kind of makes you wonder how they stay competitive. Maybe it is because they rebuild the oem stuff with inferior replacements products to cut down cost of production of rebuilding with what is usually a good unit to begin with and make it worse but call it "premium" , hence only a 1yr warranty.

OK, now it is the end of my rant for sure. Wow, I am starting to sound more and more like the other Nick, and I don't mind it a bit.
 
Last edited:

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
8,842
Likes
153
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#14