2012 Lincoln Navigator - 6r80 - 235k miles - possible trans slip

[chackett]

Thanks Bill. Yeah, forscan doen't have any trans codes / data. I spent a little (and I do mean a little) time doing some research to see if I could find a scanner that would give me the trans data, but I didn't really have much luck. I guess once you start looking at that kind of data, the manufacturers assume you're a professional and start charging "professional" prices for the equip I'll ask if anyone in my neighborhood has a scanner (there are several gear heads in the hood) and if not, I'll see if it makes sense to buy one. Are these available for rent anywhere I wonder?

Also, in full disclosure, It's been a minute since I have the trans any attention. Maybe 60 or 80k miles ago when I did the molded leadframe. I took an eyedropper and took a little fluid out to inspect it. Doesn't look great I guess but doesn't smell scorched or anything.

Would dropping the pan and changing the filter and fluid in the pan be a worthwhile thing or a waste at this point .. until I better understand what might actually be going on here?

 

[billr]

Lets ask the experts if there are resistance (or other) checks that can be done on the solenoids before you drop the pan again. If a solenoid is obviously bad, from external tests, you might as well change it when you change the fluid/filter.

There are ELM327-type devices that will connect the car to a phone/computer for scanning/live-data, and are very inexpensive. Nickb2 is probably your best source here for info on the ELM stuff.

PS: That fluid doesn't look good to me, too brown!

 

[chackett]

Lets ask the experts if there are resistance (or other) checks that can be done on the solenoids before you drop the pan again. If a solenoid is obviously bad, from external tests, you might as well change it when you change the fluid/filter.

There are ELM327-type devices that will connect the car to a phone/computer for scanning/live-data, and are very inexpensive. Nickb2 is probably your best source here for info on the ELM stuff.

PS: That fluid doesn't look good to me, too brown!

I agree. It's definitely too brown. You can at least tell it was red at some point in the hopefully not too distant past

 

[chackett]

Super quick update. I tried using my tow/haul button as suggested but it didn't seem to make the issue better or worse. I posted in my neighborhood FB group and someone has a scanner at their work and I'm going to bring it by there early this week and have them pull the codes and we'll see what's what. Hopefully that will give me some actual data to use for diag.

 

[bp042665]

ok tow haul prove its not a miss fire on engine so it could be valve body related or internal issue coming

 

[billr]

Bp, are there any electrical or pressure checks he should do before dropping the pan for a fluid/filter change? I have been reading a bit about that 6r80 VB and it doesn't seem as simple as that 4R70W I worked on earlier this year!

 

[bp042665]

there is a special pan with holes in it to do a pressure check but with a scanner with live data you can read pressure

 

[chackett]

Just a small update while I continue to diagnose whatever is going on here. I did bring the vehicle to my neighbor who works at the local Volvo dealer. Someone came out with a handheld scanner and while I was talking with my neighbor he scanned the vehicle and said there were no codes. Unfortunately he did the scan while I wasn't paying attention, so I didn't see the work. I have to admit I'm skeptical his tool actually connected to the TCM.

I believe with this adapter and the ForScan.org tool, I can connect to the TCM in my vehicle and read codes and get live data myself. So I guess my next step is to order that and continue my hunt.

As a side-note, both techs there were skeptical about the ignition coils, which I understand. At least one coil in this car went bad, and the symptoms are obviously very easily mistaken for trans problems. I'm certainly no expert, but I did open the ForScan tool and watch realtime PID data on misfires on each cylinder and I didn't see anything that would indicate a misfire. Although I do admit I'm no expert, so it's possible I wasn't looking at the right PID's .. I think some of them are like "Total misfires ever" and some are "total misfires on current drive cycle" or similar. So I guess while I'm waiting for my new adapter to arrive, I'll do some learning to make sure I'm correctly diagnosing the "no misfire" condition.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[nickb2]

Hi, chris, sorry late to game.

I dont know if the forscan issue is resolved, but forscan for sure reads the TCM and is listed in the long list of supported modules.

Are u using forscan lite maybe?

Maybe you can post the version software u are using.

I can also try to get you a fill access license depending on what version you have and what kind of dongle u r using.

In any event, we need to start using mode 6 to make sure all pass after a proper drive cycle is done, if and when they all pass, we then focus on trans issue.,

If you want, I can post a specific way to see that if you dont know mode 6 yet.

 

[nickb2]

FORScan documentation v1.3.x

forscan.org

 

[nickb2]

try to graph the this drive cycle misfires under load. You can do this with forscan from my unsderstanding, and you can drive it for that drive cycle while it logs, you may catch a mis there.

If what I suspect is happening, it is not logging it cuz it is not important enough to code and fail a mode 6 cycle. So reading readiness monitors and passing them is awesome news. Means they did a good job on the revamp of the all too common revamping of the front of this engine.

Apart from that, BP is your trans guy, I am you other stuff guy, and billr is our level headed guy, the other guys are also all real rounded out also. Except for NickD, he cool, but he is stuck in 1942. Nickd, plz dont hate me. That was a pre christmas joke.

I would also not try to clear any more adaptive, try to finish a proper drive cycle. Maybe the TCM hasnt had time yet. I have seen this with ppl using scanner or code readers, clearing stuff, and ecu's having a hard time to learn cuz the culprit is actually the user inadvertently erasing stuff.

I am not saying you intentionally want this, just saying, this is something to look out for.

Again, welcome, I like you already, you are very polite.



So once you post back what dongle u r using, and what version forskin u r using, I will advice further. https://forscan.org/comparsion.html

 

[nickb2]

Mind you, I am somewhat of a day job guy in this trade, so if I sound condescending at one point in time, its not you, its just that I am used to going with autel or other supposedly high end stuff, but you can do wonders with a elm dongle, if you have the right software, the extended version of forskin windows even supports J2534 protocal, so no reason that wont read or or even reflash. Sometimes, you may have a outdated TCM sw problem as Billr stated previously.

In fact, I know there is one out there for numerous fords with this specific problem.

I will try to locate in my database and see if it applies to your nav.

Just give me some time. Tell me if you like alldata or mitchel or both, I have both. My ford sub ran out, need to see boss about that later this year, but it is limited as I only have access for interceptors.

 

[nickb2]

the wine build of forskin is highly crackable, but complex and forum rules prevent me, so going extended and making sure you have a proper dongle is essential.

 

[nickb2]

Billr, cant you show how to get notifications, cuz I never tried that here, never had use for it cuz I am always here like a bar stool/fly kinda guy.

 

[nickb2]

so this is me out on this thread until op posts back, just wanted to say one thing, once a 3v job like this stretched time, yeah, a whole, and I mean whole drive cycle needs to be done. The kind of drive cycle that gets rid of a p1000 code.

Hint hint.

Dang I like the lady in the middle.