41TE Symptoms

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
Make
Chrysler
Model
PT Cruiser
Year
2004
Miles
200,000
Engine
2.4
All - let me know if you have ever come across the following on a 41TE: 'It drives for 10-20 miles at a time before the transmission gives out. It then needs to be off for a while and then it will run again.'

Thanks,

MT
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
7,133
Points
63
Hmm... it is time for me to summon our trans expert (bp).
 

bp042665

hunting nut
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
713
Points
18
Location
Iva South Carolina
ok i have seen this a few times it could be the cooler bypass valve or a loose filter the cooler valve is behind the pump so it is hard to check but what i do is find the pressure line and try to blow air threw it a few times to clean out any trash its the line closes to the front of transmission
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
Thanks guys. bp042665 - yes, I am familiar with that cooler bypass valve. I'll check the filter closely first, then shoot air in as you say. This car has 200K miles on it, and maybe it's never been serviced. I should have the car tomorrow or Friday. I'll close the loop on this when I get resolution.

MT
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
So on my first test drive I heard whining in 1st and 2nd, but ok shifting. I could not duplicate the issue, but didn't really think I would. Then I dropped the pan and found the most hideous, nasty fluid ever and plenty of small metal, including in the small exposed section on the filter. The filter had the Mopar pentastar symbol, and was in its' proper position. I suspect it's all original, with 205K miles on it. The tranny would appear to be the one area of this car that was not meticulously maintained. Did the service with ATF+4 and filter, and I don't hear the whine now, and it shifts fine. I have not yet had a chance to pull that cooler line and blow air in as bp042665 recommended but will do so. The CEL is NOT on, and all monitors have completed.

Anyway...it appears that my Launch123 scanner actually has the ability to pull some advanced tranny codes. So I went into that module and was surprised to get P0732 (gear ratio error in 2nd) and the dreaded P1790 (fault immediately after shift), but for both, status is blank, rather than saying 'active' or 'pending'. From my limited experience and some documentation, I know that the P1790, when coupled with any gear ratio fault code, usually means internal damage. It never points to electrical, but I pretty much knew that. So the 64-dollar question for bp042665 is; have you ever gotten P1790 due to clogged filter or cooler bypass valve? I don't want to clear those codes out yet and see if they come back, as I need to smog this. Thanks,

MT
 
Last edited:

bp042665

hunting nut
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
713
Points
18
Location
Iva South Carolina
yes a clogged filter i have seen . can you check the CVI value's on this

Theory of Operation: The volumes of the transmission fluid needed to apply the friction elements are continuously monitored and learned for adaptive controls. As the clutch friction material wears, the volume of fluid needed to apply the clutch increases. The following are typical clutch volumes, the clutches may be damaged if the volumes are greater or less than the specified below:

The LR clutch volume is updated when doing a 2-1 or 3-1 coast down shift. The transmission temperature must be between 21-49°C (70-120°F). The clutch volume should be between 35 and 83.

The 2/4 clutch volume is updated when doing a 1-2 shift. The transmission temperature must be above 43°C (110°F). The clutch volume should be between 20 and 77.

The OD clutch volume is updated when doing a 2-3 shift. The transmission temperature must be above 43°C (110°F). The clutch volume should be between 40 and 150.

The UD clutch volume is updated when doing a 4-3 or 4-2 shift. The transmission temperature must be above 43°C (110°F). The clutch volume should be between 24 and 70.

Transmission effects: These codes usually set with other DTC's, which indicates an internal transmission problem.
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
bp042665 - my scanner does not read CVI. If necessary, I can get CVI from my local tranny shop for a reasonable fee. However, I would love to have that capability so let me know if you know of any low cost scanner I could buy that has it.

In this case, I think I'll blow air in that cooler line as you suggested, then put a good amount of miles on the car and see if anything bad happens. Once I smog it, I will clear those codes, and see if they come back. I suspect they will not. Thanks for your help,

MT
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
Well things do come full circle. I thought the fluid/filter service would suffice. NOT. It came back, not even reverse, just 1st. Apart, front planet snap ring came apart but amazingly did not grenade the rear planet. Pinions toast. Cooler bypass valve not bad, pump not broken. Plenty of metal in pan. I think the converter came apart and kept clogging up the filter. I have a 2003 core. Looking at both, I only see 3 frictions in the 2/4, which I think makes them both 40TEs. I think I'll do all the lip seals this time,

MT
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
Thanks, bp042665. Looks like my 2003 core is a 41TE, but the tranny that came out of the 2004 is a 40TE based on friction count. Side-by-side, the OD pressure plate is much thicker on the 40TE, and has notches in the lugs that anchor in the OD/Rev drum. Those must have been for ID at the factory. Are the trannies interchangeable? I want to build the 2003 unit because it didn't fry. Converters the same? I do have the flywheel that the 2003 was behind.

MT
 

Mealticket

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
96
Points
8
Age
48
Man the taper on these upper snap rings have always been really hard for me to see. I know some have paint marks, I believe on the side that faces up. Do both factory and replacements have the mark? Thanks,

MT
 
Top