4l60e question

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#1
Can the - pump stator bushing- be replaced when changing the converter? or is it more tear down?
Thanks
 
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#2
First question is why are you replacing the convertor?
What mileage and year and make what is the problem with transmission?

Unless you have a magic wrench you will have to remove the front pump and take it apart to replace any of the bushings.

But one time a mechanic told everyone he had a wrench that he could replace the flywheel witout pulling the transmission.
Crunch
 
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#3
I have a problem with a hard 1-2 shift after a long drive. Code 1870. Had it in a reputable shop and they replaced the tcc (I believe is the correct name, their bill calls it a L V valve) in the valve body with a new upgrade, filter and said pan looked normal. Should be ok. Nope. Same thing after a long drive. Been reading many posts from pros on the internet and half say it is the valve body, half say its the converter and some say its the bushing. 2000 astro van. 115000 miles. Thanks
 
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#4
You did not give us them information on what testing was done.
CODE 1870 ONLYS SAYS A COMPONET SLIPPING.
It could be one of many things.
Proper testing is the place to start with.
With that many miles and no testing information.
If i was you I would go for a good complete rebuild but someplace that knows what they are doing and be done with it.
A band aid on a problem does not fix the problem.
Or a repair shop that does not know what they are doing.
Check around Ask around
Word of mouth.
Family friends coworkers neighbors business people and delivery people.
Mailmen and parcel delivery people get around and notice a lot of stuff.
Even a good parts house knows what shops are good and not good.
Chamber of commerce and better business bureau and city hall.
If you find a good referral to a repair shop go look them over and talk to them.
Look for a clean looking busy place with nice people running it.
Ask a few questions and ask about their qualifications and training.
Not all places have trained tech/mechanics.
If they do not find a place that does.
Even all dealers do not have all trained techs/mechanics.
Crunch
Good Luck
But
Find a good repair shop.
 
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#5
Thanks for your opinion.
Been to 3 shops now. The only test that was done was pulll the code with the scanner at all 3.
What would be all the proper tests?
Thanks
 
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#6
Here is a little info on testing and a quote from transman.

Info - Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis #99-07-30-005 - (03/18/1999)Table 1: TCC System Symptom Table Table 2: Internal Transmission Symptom Table Component Slipping/DTC P1870 - Diagnosis1996 Buick Roadmaster 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood 1999 Cadillac Escalade 1996-99 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette 1996-99 Pontiac Firebird 1996-99 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models 1996-99 Oldsmobile Bravada 1996-99 Holden Commodore with Hydra-matic 4L60-E (RPO M30) DescriptionMany technicians experience difficulty when diagnosing 1996-1999 4L60-E transmissions with a DTC P1870 (Transmission Component Slipping). The purpose of this bulletin is to provide assistance for technicians that have already completed the DTC P1870 diagnostic table in the Service Manual. This bulletin will provide a diagnostic strategy for solving DTC P1870 concerns as well as give some of the most common causes for a DTC P1870. General Information ImportantChevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird with 3.8L V6 Engine experiencing a slip condition at 70-90 km/h (45-55 mph) when the TCC applies should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 77-71-70A for calibration re-flash. 1996 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, S/T, G Models, and 1996 Oldsmobile Bravada with VCM and 4L60-E (RPO M30) with a slip or flare on the 1-2 and/or 2-3 upshift, or no 3rd or 4th gear, or launch shudder should refer to Corporate Service Bulletin 66-71-03A to ensure that a poor internal ground in the VCM does not exist. A DTC P1870 indicates that a mechanical malfunction exists. If any other DTC's set along with a DTC P1870, then diagnose those first. A DTC P1860 (TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC PWM solenoid circuit failure exists. A DTC P0740 (TCC Enable Solenoid Circuit Electrical) will set if a TCC enable solenoid circuit failure exists. When attempting to duplicate DTC P1870, it is critical that a normal operating temperature of 82C (180F) to 93C (200F) be reached. It may be difficult to attain the transmission temperature required to adequately cause the DTC to duplicate. Allow the vehicle to idle to assist in warming the powertrain. Optimum speed to duplicate the DTC P1870 is between 89 km/h (55 mph) and 107 km/h (63 mph). Commanding the TCC ON and OFF several times with the Tech II is critical to monitoring slip when sticky valves in the valve body are suspect. If the customer brought in the vehicle for a temporary harsh 1-2 shift and no driveability concerns are seen during a test drive, then remember that a harsh 1-2 is a result of the PCM commanding maximum line pressure from recognizing a DTC P1870. The PCM must recognize that a DTC P1870 has set in two consecutive key cycles to illuminate the MIL. If a DTC P1870 is not recognized on a second key cycle, then normal line pressure returns. Vehicles should be inspected for correct tire size, axle ratio, or calibration. Diagnostic ApproachActionYesNoAttempt to duplicate DTC P1870. Did you duplicate DTC P1870?Go to Slip Check ProcedureGo to TCC System Symptom TableSlip Check ProcedureThis procedure will assist in isolating what area of the transmission is causing your slip, either the TCC system or internal transmission components. After you have isolated the origin of the slip, then utilize the TCC System Symptom Table or the Internal Transmission Symptom Table of this bulletin for most common concerns. To check for a TCC system concernTCC slip can occur either hot or cold or in both conditions. First, perform the following test at cold transmission temperatures, then perform the same test at normal operating temperature. Ideal slip from the transmission with the TCC applied is 50 RPM or less under light to normal throttle, no heavy engine load or hard accelerating conditions. Use the Tech II scan tool to monitor TCC slip while driving the vehicle in 4th gear at steady speed with the TCC commanded ON. When the TCC is applied or released (release the TCC with brake pedal, not the scan tool - release the TCC by lightly applying the brake pedal while simultaneously maintaining a steady throttle position), the slip speed should drop or rise 150-300 RPM. If the slip speed does not drop, then the DTC P1870 is being caused by the torque converter system. ActionYesNoDid TCC slip speed drop (150-300)?Continue Slip Check Procedure for an internal trans concernGo to TCC System Symptom TableTo check for an internal transmission concernSlip should be checked in every gear to isolate in which gear the slip may be occurring. Drive the vehicle in each forward gear range D1, D2, D3 and D4. Command the TCC ON with the Tech II in each gear and monitor slip speed. ImportantVehicle speed must be over 11 km/h (7 mph). Some TCC slip is normal when the TCC applies directly after 11 km/h (7 mph) is reached. If the slip speed remains constant from gear to gear, then the condition is most likely TCC related. Example: Slip speed is higher in second and fourth gear than in third gear. This would lead a technician to a possible slipping band. ActionYesNoIs slip speed equal in all gears?Go to TCC System Symptom TableGo to Internal Transmission Symptom TableImportantThese symptom tables are to be used when the following symptoms are associated with a DTC P1870. TCC System Symptom Table SymptomCausesTCC SLIP (100 RPM SLIP)Check for bronze bushing material in the pan and filter. If bronze material is present, then the stator bushings (234) and turbine shaft (241) should be replaced (Bronze bushing may turn black with an acrid odor). The turbine shaft and housing (621) should be replaced if damaged. In rare instances, it may be necessary to check for an overheated torque converter (24) (Blue and/or distorted converter). TCC solenoid (66) - Perform leak check. Converter clutch valve (224) in pump should be checked for 13 mm (0.500 in) of bore travel without binding. Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) cut. Turbine shaft hole not drilled to full depth. This concern can be checked by squirting trans fluid through the turbine shaft hole to check for full flow. This is a low mileage failure. NO TCC APPLY (300 RPM SLIP)Converter clutch valve (224) stuck closed (Check for debris in valve bore). TCC PWM solenoid (396) broken/cracked. Visually inspect solenoid. TCC solenoid (66). Perform leak test. Turbine shaft O-ring seal (618) omitted. TCC SLIP WITH STALL STUMBLEConverter clutch valve (224) stuck open (TCC is applying).INTERMITTENT TCC, OK COLD, SLIPS HOTTCC PWM solenoid (396). Leak test solenoid. The TCC regulator apply valve (380) and/or converter clutch shift valve (224) may be sticking/side-loading. It is possible there will not be any damage to the valve upon inspection. Transmissions produced after 2/1/98 will have a groove cut into the spring end of the regulator apply valve. This design is to help float the valve in its bore (replace valve body assembly). Internal Transmission Symptom Table SymptomCauses3RD OR 4TH GEAR SLIP3-2 downshift solenoid (394) ball seat retention failed. Leak test solenoid. Usually associated with a 3-4 clutch/band worn. 3rd accumulator retainer and ball assembly (40) leaks. Test for proper check ball operation. Usually associated with burned 3-4 clutch. NO 4TH OR SLIPPING 4TH Check ball in the wrong location or extra check ball that has dropped behind the spacer plate during trans assembly. The extra check ball can block the 4th apply servo feed. Clutch orifice cup plug (238) not fully pressed in. SLIP/FLARE IN ANY GEARPump slide inner spring (207) or outer spring (206) omitted causing a slow slide response.NO 3RDClutch orifice cup plug (238) blown out.HARSH 1-2 UPSHIFT4-3 sequence valve (383) stuck in bore by sediment.NO 2-3 UPSHIFT2-3 shift valve (368) or 2-3 shuttle valve (369) stuck in bore by sediment.NO 3-4 UPSHIFT3-4 shift valve (385) stuck in bore by sediment.Service InformationRefer to the appropriate Service Manual for replacement procedures. Warranty InformationLabor Code: Refer to Labor Time Guide for correct labor operation. Please use the closest available labor operation for the diagnosis performed. GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To better help in undersanding the code.
Here is a quote from Transman
{Quote} in a nutshell, the valve body does chronically wear in the 4L60E especially in the lockup PWM bore. The code lights when there is more then 100 rpm or so when locked up. Depending on mileage and fluid condition will determine the next course of action. The seal on the input shaft gets tons of heat and is the most critical seal in the trans. If there are high miles, usually what it takes to wear the vb, then the rubber seals as well as the Teflon ones are just as worn. The 1870 code is telling me there is a internal leak in this trans...someplace. The transmission is a multitude of leaks and it is engineered that way, some are good leaks because they lube planetaries and some are not so good because they make the pump work harder to make up for the leaks inside. Teflon rings leak to get enough holding power to not leak. The point here is if you have excessive or extra leaks then the PWM must cycle higher pressure and volumes to compensate making it work harder and the very forces that wear out the vb bore are increased wearing the bore quicker. In addition to that factor, with internal leaks you also have increased temperature and heat kills big time in a tranny plus it decays the additives in the fluid itself and now you are in a downhill spiral as the trans self destructs form leaks and heat and destruction of the fluid itself. Now the hard parts will start to wear at an increased speed, the pump is trying to maintain for the fluid loss(leaks), the planets will start overheating as the bushings wear out you generate more hemorrhaging and more damage.
Yes, at that point the vb is a bandaid, it may solve the problem for now but the internal wear and hardening of the seals is still there and will continue to wear. The problem I have with just throwing a vb at this problem is simply, the worn components will make the new vb work harder and cycle more than it should and the consequence of that is another prematurely worn out vb and ultimately overhaul of the trans that you should have taken care of before. The transmission is a complete and interdependent unit meaning all parts rely and interact on each other. If one part is worn out then you must deal with the unit on the whole. There are exceptions to every rule and the jeep is a good one, the accumulator plate is held down by too few screws and the plate is under enough pressure that when the screws break, the plate peels back like a lid on a dog food can. If caught soon enough then a repair of the valve body is sufficient to be a complete repair. If you have a 4L60E with 100k on it and smokey fluid and only a P1870 then you are not doing the customer a service by simply replacing the vb.
I have yet to take a trans apart that was simply coding 1870 and not found hard seals or other problems internally. Most of the time, I have not even needed to deal with the vb at all, aside from basic clean up and solenoid replacements. I have had to replace more transfer plates than valve bodies from the balls eating through. In the past 6 months, I have replace 2 valve bodies. I do not use the sonnex kit although the place I get my vb's from does.
I hope this helped you understand why I claim the 1870 code means internal problems more than just throwing a vb in my experience. Transman
 

marine6212

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#7
Take it to a tranny shop that gives a good warranty. I just had the same problem on a 2000 Chevy blazer with a 4L60E tranny. I took it back four (4) times before they fixed the problem. The shop rebuilt the tranny again with all new parts. It is frustrating to keep taking it back and not fixing the problem. If the shop rebuilds the tranny and the code comes back ask them to give you a rental car till it is fixed. I was lucky and had a loaner from a Friend.

Marine6212
 

Transman

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#9
Thanks for saving that quote Crunch, I should do the same as it will save tons of typing, lol. Frankly, I think the people that rebuilt his tranny did not replace the stator bushing. This has been where I have been finding the dreaded 1870. I spent weeks researching the main leakage inside the tranny and this is where I always seem to find excessive blowby in this trans. The first one I found like this, after I replaced the bushing, I installed a "Bad" valve body from another shop, they replaced the VB because of this code, The trans I put this into is still going with over 80k on it and no codes yet. Transman
 

bkautoman

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#10
I am no trans pro but I hav done a lot of 4l60e's GM was replacing the valve body for a slip code but I have found that installing a shift improver kit usually corrects the problem and I have been fortunate enough that I have had o come backs. Maybe I am just lucky but The kit Is only $40.00. I get them from trans star Hope this helps you
 

Transman

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#11
The shift kit may correct the code as part of the kit boosts line pressure as well as making shift modifications. This only goes around the problem and tends to cause other problems down the road. This does not repair the problem but only masks it. The shift kit will wear the valve body as well as the pump and may even cause components to break apart inside the trans. I am not saying this will cause an overnight problem and depending on the original condition and driving habits may take months or even years to surface. This is simply not the way I repair vehicles. I am not saying my way is the only way but I am explaining where the problem lies inside of this transmission, what you do with that info is entirely up to you.
You can choose to install a 20 amp fuse where a 15 amp keeps blowing and that may hold for a while, that does not make it a proper or good repair and fuses are much cheaper than finding the overloading component to repair it. Transman