Auto trans extension (tailshaft) seal

nickb2

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#16
Have you checked the vent, it may be clogged. Maybe a reason. Just fishing at this point. I know from all the yrs here that you are very meticulous, but if trans didnt blow to bad, and runs again with fluid, try using some sealant in the right stuff dept on the yellow surface side, where metal hits aluminum. Mounting surface my brain is trying to say.

If the vent clogged, could have been a pressure build up, and maybe not the first time this seal has been changed. So put some sealer, or bondo whatever super glue etc, if the oil blows past seal, confirmed a pressure buildup. The onto finding why.

Anyway Bill, darn that sucks, that job was supposed to be easy peachy. Hope client/buddy etc knew better, but if he ran it dry for an extended period without noticing he was getting bad shifting, may be to late. Try some hyper grab oil in there to try to get friction back. It is a hail mary, but worth a try.
 

nickb2

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#17
May be a good idea to drop pan bofore going any firther, if anything funky in there, and it ran dry, will show up in the filter and magnet and also in the weird bump of the pan. Anything shines! Toast.

The pans on these take only a few minutes to remove. ;)
 

nickb2

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#18
That was noon, morning and nights were -15c or so. Wind chill was -20or so.

And no, you should never match a seal by color. But you get one like that, it shows it is most likely the ORM company that made it for ford. I see you got yours from national, good choice, I think the links I showed did not show origin, but by color, gives an indication, but not fool proof.

Today, freezing rain all day, corn ppl are freakin out. They didn't have time to finish the end crops. Gonna be some major losses, gonna be a heavy crop insurance year. :oops: With the freezing rain, just hope it isn't a year like the other time a few decades or so ago. We sure ran out of generators that yrs. Cuz this is exactly how that catastrophic went down.

But I guess burning like in your state is worse. Takes time for soil to get back.
 
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billr

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#19
Here are a few more pictures. That "part in pan" thingy with the O-ring, please tell me it is some kind of shipping plug that they just let drop into the pan when the dip-stick tube is installed... (the spark plug is just for a size reference) Other than that, nothing was too scary there; no flakes and very little dust on the magnet. The fluid (what was left) didn't smell the very best, but it was still trying to be red, not black or brown.

I am puzzled as to why that new seal came out of the housing. As you can see, both it and the trans housing are undamaged and I had to drive the seal in with a 5-pound hammer. I had a thick-wall tube that covered the whole seal flange, no bending of it at all. Yes, that is the actual seal that jumped out of the housing bore! Pictures taken after it had come out.

I have only two guesses:
1) I put Aviation Permatex on the seal OD, that may have interfered with any locking action from the red goop on the OD the seal came with.
2) If the trans vent is plugged, then internal pressure might have pushed the new seal out, where the old worn one leaked enough that pressure could not get that high. I'm thinking it would take 100 psi or more to force that seal out, doesn't seem likely to me.

Any other ideas? I will put the new one in without the Permatex, but don't know what else to do in an effort to prevent this happening again
 

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billr

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#21
Well, now it is officially time to panic!

I put in a new tail-shaft seal and filter and took it for a drive. On the 2-3 shift (I think it is 2-3) it groans/shudders like an unhappy drum brake and the truck slows down... well, like the brakes had been applied. I can kind of force it through this speed/load into the next gear and then it is OK again. I fear there is a sprag (over-running) clutch that isn't releasing for 3rd, so the trans is trying for two gears at once and locking. It has been over 50 years since I experienced that with a Hydra-Matic that had bands adjusted too tight, but it was a memorable experience that this is eerily similar to.

So... any hints, or "Hail Mary" plays I can try?
 

billr

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#23
Would it help any if I got codes and looked at live-data to determine exactly which shift it is? I should have done that last night, but was too beat up by the day. Started before 4 AM on my "day job". No "Hail Mary"s to try, I guess?

Ordinarily I would try to repair a trans, but don't have the time now. I'm thinking of getting a trans from a JY, so some questions:
1) What other years/models will have the same 4R70W trans, are there any "gotcha" differences like different splines for different yokes?
2) Does the TC R&R easily from the trans, in case that is all I can find, a trans less TC?
3) I assume cooler lines are some kind of push-in, not traditional threaded. Will I need a special tool for those, or can I get by with clever use of screw-drivers and pliers? (Of course, if I was clever, I wouldn't be in the situation I am now...) I could make any tool needed, but I am short on time. If a $20 tool will make this a lot easier, especially in a P&P JY, then I will probably spend the $.
4) How heavy is that trans? I am seeing on the P&P JY sites that "no jacks allowed" is their policy. Do I need to bring wheelbarrow to cart the trans? JackC, any advice on what to expect at the P&P? I will probably go to the one in Fairfield, though.
5) Can I drain the trans pretty well by holding it with TC, drain though the tail-shaft opening once yoke is out?

PS: I did try blowing air in the dip-stick tube once I got this one back together. I could feel a pretty good flow of air somewhere over on the top passenger-side; so I don't think a plugged vent was cause of that first seal jumping out
 

bp042665

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#24
ok all trucks 2wd are easy to remove trans weight is about 150 LBS make sure they have the same starter bolt pattern trans lines are 1/2 or 5/8 line wrench as for years they did change in the 2004 I think not sure don't have a year interchange chart sorry bill but most wrecking yards can tell you
 

billr

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#25
There is not much anybody can do to help me, other than commiserate with my tale of woe.

Friday, I took it for another ride to check for codes and see if live-data was of any use. No codes were indicated, using two different scanners. My old Snappy brick showed that the bad shift was going from 3rd to 4th, but that was about all I could tell. The live-data was not nearly as easy to use or as extensive as the brick gets from my GM cars of the same vintage. The only new info I got was now the trans would slip freely after going into 4th, rather than the previous problem of locking up. I concluded that it was probably toast and elected to go after a JY special from P & P.

So, today we got the replacement and had it going in before we realized we were F***ed. I used a capital "F" because I mean "Forded", not the other f-word, but the effect is the same... The starter config is different (as BP warned), even though it was from a '99 F-150 same as the recipient. I think it was even the same V-6 (per the door sticker), but the engine was already gone, so not certain about that. This is the second time in my life that I have run into slight variants of Ford components that turned out to be major "gotchas". I don't know which I hate more this evening, Fords or JYs.
 

billr

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#26
How feasible is it for me to make one good trans (and a core) out of the bad one I have and the JY one with wrong bell-housing/starter config? Are the internals likely to be the same? Are many special tools needed? Anybody have an overhaul manual they can share? This may not seem like a practical plan, but the JY is 70 miles away, rain is due soon, and the temp is dropping from 70F to the low 50s over the next few days. Swapping parts in my garage would be far more pleasant than laying on the cold wet gravel in the JY.
 

nickb2

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#27
When I first started this trade, we used to read english shop manuals to get used to english terminology.

One of the first things that struck to me whilst perusing the ford manuals, it writen alomost every other paragraph. Some thing like this


"REMOVE ENGINE TO ACCES OIL FILTER!!

or, follow pid data and use pin out box # 9284-12758-198257-2389u-50931785-19ui


And guess what?

REMOVE ENGINE IN NEXT STEP.

If not sure of step 1, remove engine, if still not sure, read chapter one of how to fix a front end on a maverick, remove man from prybar, and proceed to go back to step 1:fixed::D:eek::giveup:
 

nickb2

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#28
Most times, when these trucks come in the shop, my vision gets sloppy. Boss asks, truck good? Yup. next, hope it is a volvo, might as well make it a awesome day.
 

billr

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#29
What, no sympathy that I may have to work in 50F weather?

Yeah, any procedure that begins with "disconnect battery ground cable, drain engine coolant and oil" ain't gonna be a quick job...
 

bp042665

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#30
bill the internals are the same so go ahead and swap them out all you'll need is a big pair of channel lock pliers or a big c clamp to compress the OD Band servo to get that snap ring in