Ford F150 2012 VVT

keith

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This truck had a code P0024 I think. The VVT solenoid was replaced then the code came back and I was told the phaser is now the problem. I was told a bad VVT solenoid will cause the phaser to go bad. To me this does not sound right. Also I was told you have to replace the solenoid with the phaser. Which also do not sound right. Any one heard a bad VVT solenoid was ruin a phaser?
 

nickb2

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Would be nice to know what engine you have. 4 engine possibilities here. Would help if I needed to post PCM and harness schematics.

You say P0024, I think That is your writing, can you confirm codes and be sure there are no others present with KOEO and KOER tests.

Now P0024 gives me exhaust camshaft position timing over advanced bank 2. Could be a number of things, oil passage restriction, VCT valve body restricted, VCT circuit short or open, etc. And yes a damaged phaser also.

Now for me to help further, must know which engine you have. Provided is a picture of a VCT "phaser" for a 5.0l I think. These will be different to some degree on a specific engine. I does not mean a "phaser" is bad.

Electrical diagnosis is called for first to be assured of electronic functionality before delving into an engine this far. Not a small job for the DIYF'r.

PDF ACE 1 attachment is only part two of how to replace or repair them. Gives you an idea on a 5.0l



Of note, the intake and exhaust cams have oil filters in them as seen in the snap shot I provided. These could be restricted also.
 

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nickb2

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Also, you could check for oil pressure. These oil pumps are expected to produce 15psi @ idle and 40psi @ 2grand.

Seeing and hearing many complaints on VCT problems due to oil passageways being blocked or restricted. How many mile/km's on this engine? Look at the oil cap. Is it filled with gummy residue? Maybe a engine cleaning flush with a product such as Gunk or similar may help.

Also removing the VCT solenoids and looking at the oil filter screens may show something also. Free to look at. If they are gummed up, try cleaning them after you have flushed the engine, not before. ;)
 

keith

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This is a 3.7L engine, with 55,000 miles. I took it to the dealer under the powertrain 60.000 mile warranty. I scanned the code before I took it in and it was the P0024 code. They said the VVT solinoid was bad and replace it. Said this was not covered under wattanty. So I had them fix it. Thought it was probably the problem becauce I have replaced few of these myself. Next day check engine light is back on same code. Took it back and they said the problem is the cam phaser and is covered under warranty. I said no problem just give my money back. They are claining the bad VVT solenoid ruined the cam phaser, so the VVT solenoid was in fact bad. After talking to them for a few minutes I said let see the bad solenoid, and they said it was already in the trash. I was thinking about this I can not see any way the VVT solenoid would take out a phaser. I think they were acting like the VVT solenoid was plug and no oil ruined the phaser. However I told them no oil no movement. The solenoid is a valve shuts oil on and off. Off is a normal function of the solenoid, so stuck off would not ruin the phaser in 1 day.
 

billr

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I gotta ask... why isn't the solenoid covered under warranty? Is it specifically excluded in the wording of the warranty? What about the warranty for emissions equipment, does it stop at 50K? That's a main function of that VVT, reducing emissions.
 

kev2

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SUGGESTIONs

Go to an auto parts store-
get a scan - FREE- post all codes.
add 1 bottle of 'RISOLINE' Oil treatment @8$

tell us your oil maintenance history...
How are you with a DVOM?

we will offer some more ideas - BUT only 55K lots of questions there
 

keith

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I have a brand new snap on solus ultra and I posted the only code in the truck. Oil has been changed regularly. My question is still: Is they any reason to believe a bad VVT solenoid would ruin a cam phaser. I still think this is not possible. The solenoid is only a valve that moves the allows hydraulic pressure in and out of the phaser which is a mechanical part.
 

kev2

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I would agree with the theory that a solenoid wound NOT cause a failure of the phaser (actuator).

BUT it is academic - someone could argue that it can damage phaser -
Leading to A discussion on dealer excuses - BUT won't get the truck fixed though.


I would first check the other possibilities fir the P0024... ELECTRICAL, sludge, oil pressure, I would also look at TSB's etc.. ANYTHING you need we will try to get to you.. just ask - but a theory discussion wont get her done.


PS 55k and a excuse by dealer just reinforces my opinion.
 

billr

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I can envision ways a bad solenoid could wear out the phaser prematurely, especially if the valve is controlled by PWM. However, I agree, those theoretical possibilities aren't germane. I would focus on getting Ford to kick-back the cost of the solenoid job.
 

keith

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Just got off the phone with the service manager and he agree that a bad solenoid could not cause the phaser to go bad and they are going to refund the money. Basically I argued that a stuck solenoid (stuck closed or opened) is within the normal operational range of the phaser therefore would not damage it. The service manager agreed unless the solenoid came apart. But I reminded him that the solenoid has a screen on it for just such a problem. So that is all I know until I get the truck bad and see if the phaser fixed it.
 

kev2

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let us know- what, how, etc the VCT issue is resolved.
 

nickb2

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Since this truck is under warranty, the ACE pdf's I will post are for information purposes only and you will not be needing to tear into this, as I have heard of the phasers giving out alot.

The pin locking the phasers which the VCT solenoids actuate through oil pressure breaks. Also, the phasers become quite noisy over time and many ppl have turned to locking them with kits and tuner programs such as this. http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/categories/Livernois-Motorsports-Exclusive-Products/Cam-Phasers-%26-Lockouts/

However, the 3.7l is a 4v as is the 5.0l. The lockouts are for the 4.6l and the 5.4l 3v.

Anyways, getting ahead of myself. Just studying how it is made and looking at the pdf's will give you a general idea of function.

So keep us posted, interesting thread.
 

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nickb2

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Here is flow chart for P0024 which sent me to pinpoint test HK. Here it is in pdf format so you can print it out. 12 pages. It has connector views, and PCM pin location also and connector views there also, seems like a complete flow chart. :D

Ace 3 is VCT wiring to PCM. ;)

Fuse F76 sure feeds alot of powertrain stuff!! Evap purge valve, all 4 VCT solenoids and all 4 heaters for HO2's so I am guessing the power side of things is kosher as you would have a plethora of codes. ;) However, always best to not leave that one grn wire out on the exhaust side VCT, bank 2

Since you have a solus, you should be able to monitor pid data easily. Which I applaud you on having BTW.

And remember, as silly as it may sound, you may just an oil passageway that is blocked. DO NOT OVERLOOK that.
 

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nickb2

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HK11 tests the functionality of the VCT system, and here and only here do we see ford say to replace the phaser, and this is AFTER having checked oil pressure first and having ruled out all VCT solenoids and related wiring. Page 10 to 11 and 12 of my ace pdf for HK flowchart.

That is why I think it is not ever safe just to assume something on someones word without having checked all avenues.

Since I now know which engine, the oil pressure say is to be at least/minimum 30psi @1500rpm for the 3.7l 4v.
 

keith

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To anwser one of the question, the VVT solenoid is only covered under the 3 years 36,000 mile warranty. The phaser is covered under the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. This is what I was told by ford I have no explaination for it.

I should get the truck back from Ford tomorrow, So I will let you know when it is fixed.
 
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