Freon evaporating out of cans?

roser601

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I have been arguing with my cousin about an experience he had and is adamant about why it happened.
He had bought several 14 oz cans of r-12 (24 to be exact) before the price went up in the early 90’s and stored them outdoors in his metal building for 6 years.
When he needed to use a couple of cans he discovered that all the cans were empty.
He swears up and down that there was no rust on the cans and no holes.
His explanation was that the r-12 had evaporated out of the cans. I told him that this was impossible but he was adamant and nothing I said would change his mind—-please tell me that I am not wrong, because his explanation seems to be not feasable!
 

billr

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I don't think you are wrong, the R12 should not have leaked out. Were these cans with a metal seal/cap that has to be pierced with the tapping valve? One possibility, though, is that manufacturers were trying to get rid of all existing stock and were pushing out product with less than optimal quality control on the canning process.
 

grcauto

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To store these cans you want to be sure that they are not changing temperatures much. If they are exposed to changing temperatures the resulting expansion and contraction of the metal will eventually cause the seal to leak and it will not take long to empty out once that happens.
 

Mobile Dan

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The old "freon" R-12 becomes a deadly nerve gas if it is exposed to a flame. But...not much R-12 around anymore.
 

billr

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Did you catch the part about "exposed to flame"? It has to get up above 480F, much hotter than my garage. R-12 is generally considered non-toxic and non-flammable. Take a peek at the MSDS for it
 

jigfeett

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R-12 chloromethanes, turns to phosgene gas when heated inhaled and settles in the lungs and cannot be removed not even by tipping a person upside down, yes they tried this. Another term for phosgene gas is mustard gas...HVAC guys have been dying for years.
 

NickD

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Total BS about R-12 depleting the ozone layer, NASA did a study on this, main source is the Antarctic whose ozone layer depletes rapidly due to lack of sunlight in their super long winters.

Al Gore is a crook and should be put into prison that SOB, banned R-12 over night, and no users or suppliers, manufacturers were held responsible. If you were a single mom with kids, up to her to replace her entire AC system, well except for the evaporator in some cases to convert to R-134a at her own expense.

Then Al Gore is blaming CO2 for global warming, sure in the heck not around here, coldest winters every, and last summer in super hot August, AC bill was five bucks. CO2 has a low specific heat, molecule is resonant to a very small light radiation from the sun, and only when the sun is not blocked at night or clouds, and only occupies 0.06% of the atmosphere, only really very stupid people believe in this BS and BS it is.

Now lead in gas is dangerous to mental health if it crosses the blood brain barrier makes you stupid with a loud mouth, sounds like our politicians, right? But this was given a 20 year phase out period. Just had to add an EGR valve to my vehicles to use unleaded. And of course if your stock ERG valve doesn't open, you will very quickly cook your engine.

Only have one R-12 vehicle left, my 88 Supra Turbo, but in the last 32 years, only had to add 3 ounces of R-12 to it. No successful R-134a conversions were made with the car and many others. Still have around 5-6 pounds left in a tank, best place to store it is in a freezer, pressure drops down to nothing. R-12 won't even work below 39*F, has pressure switches to keep the AC running, they are wide open below this temperature.

Domest vehicles are stupid switching on the AC in defrost mode, first off its not humidity, but relative humidity, below 40*F, its next to nothing. First AC vehicle was in 1962, been disabling that defrost feature ever since, and you know what, had very few AC problems. That compressor seal is stiff and cold, run your compressor, will leak some, worse, mineral oil, either lose your Freon, trade DuPont name or seize your compressor.

Japanese cars, like my Toyota have an AC switch, when it off, its off.

R-12 use to be 16 ounce cans, reduced to 12 ounces then disappeared in the US, you can tell if they are empty weigh about a pound less.

Ha, Canada was to the first to completely ban R-12, if you lost your R-12, no other choice but to use proven R-134a that causes global warming, but Canada could use a tad of global warming. Live very close to Thunder Bay, good place to visit to freeze your butt off, even during the summer months. Guys were coming down here for AC work, could still buy R-12 at 80 bucks per pound. Mexico and south to Peru where its really hot uses R-12 like crazy.

If crossing the Mexican border, far better off to bring drugs than a can of R-12.

Ironically 96% of the total CFC production was used for everything else except AC, around 36% for spray cans, other 50% for cleaning, government required, and also for tracing ocean currents. Fines for releasing R-12 from your vehicle if caught were in the thousands. Spray cans were converted to propane, these are virtual flame throwers, don't dare use these indoors.

What's really stupid and I mean Bill Clinton and Al Gore stupid, can't get any dumber or crooked than these guys, is banning CFC's from inhalers for people that really need this stuff, can't find anything safer.

CFC's came out in around 1933 primarily for indoor refrigerators, before then was using ammonia, Heard about our family members, husband, wife and four kids died from ammonia poisoning. CFC's are very safe in this respect, but banned by a crook.

Pressures in R-134a skyrocket with temperature, make sure your debris and bug collector condenser is kept clean. Definitely in your frostless refrigerator. Seen some where that heat burnt holes in the floor.

This post got me strarted.
 

nickb2

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I'm just wondering what we do with the rest of the r134 when the new r1234yf becomes the new r12? Time to call Al Capone from his deep sleep and mafia this, like gore and company!! Right Nick?

This post got me strarted.
Logic is not for the faint of heart, better to listen to superbowl shyte and eat nachos out of a new EV mustang hood? SUV maybe? Not a mustang, a nacho eating green car/suv that in a hundred yrs from now, ppl will be saying lithium ion limit caused the corona beer virus and gave us zombies to fight till the end of time, AND the new freon for those EV systems as well will become the NEW heroin when they get the "Z" designation. Zombie apocalypse.

Look at this virus craze, ppl are just plain stupid. This is called survival of the fittest, and right now, the human beings are the virus, we need to down size, it is in mother natures way to say, to many ppl here, lets try r24 with a pinch of lead to die some brain cells out, give ppl like trump who just beg to be laughed out of the room, and give them the "football". What is a "football" In case your wondering, I am referring to how an idiot 1% who could think this is good for buisness unless you are inherently evil to start with. https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politics/nuclear-football-garrett-graff/index.html

I am so happy to be living in this century, lots of thing to laugh about. The irony of it all makes this one of the bests times in the short life span of humans to be human. I love it when I see some one else fall on ice, I think it it funny. But somehow, the norm became, america's funniest home videos, and boy, did we eat that up.

Last century, I would be lacing up for trench war with no donald trump pussies in site to back this canadian dude, even a guy or gal from thunder bay who actually knows how to freeze his/her butt off in style would have more sense and humanity. In fact, probably would have shot him in the arse just to get him out of my way with musket/ so he could go play monopoly with his tycoon dad who invented half the shyte the other Nick just talked about. Link dupont and other rich boners. 1% ain't only for rich ppl. This is why they have bodyguards, cuz the other 99% knows they got f ed up the arse in a million ways and they used Mr Dressup to sugar coat it, and super bowl shyte sure feeds the masses, and every time I see a half time show, I think of the amount of brain cells that just died, which has NOTHING to do with lead, freon, plastic etc.

Ok, end of rant because as of now, we are on a dead line and as the following video follows, this guy should have been president.

Ppl, will believe anything, if the laziness suits the ego of man.

 
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NickD

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Some people say we are crazy for designing machines that burn the same oxygen we need to breathe, but you don't hear anything about this because the level of oxygen is still at 20% in the atmosphere.

And our oxygen does not come from the rain forest in the Amazon, they use up all the oxygen those trees make.
Most or our oxygen comes from tiny ocean plants called phytoplankton rest of it from land plant life.

In automotive, been discussed, why are we feeding our engines with nitrogen, ain't doing any thing, and if the combustion chamber temperature is too high, forms ozone that is not good for us. That comes from over heating Nitrogen. Was talk about removing the nitrogen before combustion.

Going back to R-12 contains carbon, chlorine, and fluorine and is true that UV rays from the sun will break it down into its components, chlorine is the main substance they are falsely blaming for consuming the O2 moleclues in the upper atmosphere. But chlorine is not found in nature, it comes from nature, but so active goes back to its natural inactive state and also much heavier than air. Can't find it anywhere, another way of explaining R-12, its 100% biodegradable and R-134a the replacement is not!!!

R-22 is also being banned, it contains about 1% of the chlorine of R-12.

How come we don't have IQ tests for candidates to our high offices, most of them you are complementing them for calling them idiots, they are actually morons.

Met my senators, asked me what do I for a living, well not anymore, engineer designing ignitions systems and alternators. What is an alternator? They know nothing about an automobile, yet making laws.

Could never get into politics, you have to listen to these morons yack and yack all day, that would drive me completely nuts.

But I am sure going to vote for the ones that promise free health care and more than an engineers or a doctors paycheck with minimum wage jobs. These morons couldn't even give you the correct change for a buck.
 
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nickb2

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Ha, Canada was to the first to completely ban R-12, if you lost your R-12, no other choice but to use proven R-134a that causes global warming, but Canada could use a tad of global warming. Live very close to Thunder Bay, good place to visit to freeze your butt off, even during the summer months. Guys were coming down here for AC work, could still buy R-12 at 80 bucks per pound. Mexico and south to Peru where its really hot uses R-12 like crazy.
Your age is showing here. o_O
 
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