Fuel fowling plugs..

ej1619

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
127
Likes
0
Points
16
#1
Make
Honda
Model
Accord
Year
99
Miles
165k
Engine
4 cyl
1999 honda accord 4 cyl 165k approx. So this is the daughters fiancees heap. It's na crank no start. So we've replaced the distributor, new cap, rotor, plugs, wires as well as the ignition coil. What I'm finding is it will start then immediately shut down. Then fuel fowls the plugs. This thing is driving me nuts. The only codes I'm getting is the p402 catalyst, I've gone and pulled the exhaust manifold to ensure it's not a blocked exhaust. Any ideas where to continue? What would cause it to flood the cylinders and foul the plugs? This makes no sense to me being fuel injected.:giveup:
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
4,860
Likes
27
Points
48
#2
Leaky fuel injections and if the fiancee poured ethanol fuel in this thing, that's what caused them to leak.
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
17
Likes
0
Points
1
#3
DTC P402 relates to excessive EGR flow, not the catalyst (for reference: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0402).
The EGR valve may be stuck open. If the valve is stuck open, the engine won't idle because with the EGR valve open, there's essentially a HUGE vacuum leak.

Fouled plugs? There's a few more factors at play here, but if the engine starts but will not idle (because of the vacuum leak), the ECU will try to increase the idle speed and request more fuel. I wouldn't discount the countless times at attempting to start the engine; all this cranking will cause fuel to flood the combustion chambers (unless you're holding the throttle open = clear-flood mode).

To check for leaking injectors, pull the vacuum line at the pressure regulator and make sure there's no fuel coming out - if no fuel then reconnect the vacuum line. Connect a pressure gauge and pinch off the fuel return line. Key on and note the pressure reading. Once the pump stops its priming cycle, note if the pressure drops. It should hold. A rapid drop in pressure indicates there's a leaking injector. However, it's rare that you'll find all the injectors leaking at the same time.
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,639
Likes
88
Points
48
#4
" It's na crank no start."

What does that mean??? I'm thinking this is a "cranks, fires, then soon dies" situation; but, please, avoid typos assiduously! This thread is already heading "into the weeds" without adding any more confusion.

There are many possible causes here. Are you using live-data to check things? That will avoid a lot of guessing.

Does it crank, fire, (and then die) pretty reliably? If so, how long will it run before it dies? Clean the plugs (one, at least) then do a single start-die cycle and get a picture of the plug(s) to post here. Do this quick after it dies, have the tools and camera right on-hand, so we might get a clue how wet they are getting. While any of the plugs are out, take compression readings. It probably isn't a compression problem, but it never hurts to know the basic engine innards are probably OK...

I agree with the above to check fuel pressure at key-on and while idling (if you can catch it before it dies) and to check for fuel in the regulator vacuum line. Holding fuel pressure after the prime isn't a definitive test. Either the regulator or pump check-valve could be seeping if that pressure drops; and be of no real problem. It does not necessarily mean an injector is leaking.

Ethanol? I have been running E10 for many years now with no problems. Don't spend much time hunting that snipe.

The live-data? Use that to check ECT and IAT, make sure this beast doesn't think it is trying to run in Alaska at -40F. Check MAP, to see if it thinks it is "idling" at WOT and fueling for lots of power. Check injector PW, it should be in the 2-5 msec range at idle.
 

ej1619

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
127
Likes
0
Points
16
#5
It starts once, immediately dies then refuses to start back up. Pulled the plugs and they are flat out soaked. Replaced them with the old dry set and it's the exact same scenario. Therefore, it's impossible for me to actually do any running tests.

As for the "It's an crank and no start", that was a minor error. It should read, "it's a crank and no start". Excuse me for not being perfect..
 

billr

wrench
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,639
Likes
88
Points
48
#7
What about the live-data, do you have that? Live-data can answer some questions without even cranking the engine. Try disconnecting connectors to all injectors; then crank and see if any plugs get really wet with injectors getting no pulses at all. I suppose pulling the injector fuse(s) might also work for this, too.

I just saw nickb2's suggestion of the 'noid lights; that can also be telling once you ensure the injectors are not leaking mechanically when unpowered.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
10,586
Likes
185
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#8
My educated guess, the dizzy!! Erratic spark line, injectors flooding, no spark to go. Classic. If I had 5$ for every honda distributor I have changhed in my career for this same exact problem, I could buy myself a lexus.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
10,586
Likes
185
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#13
But these engines are tech certified for doing 400k at least in canadian miles. Original engine and tranny most often also. Great freaking cars. And if you can run it for a bit more, great money saver, they dont cost that much to maintain, unless this one has rott gutt. That is what kills thoses things up here, salt.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
10,586
Likes
185
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#14
Course on how not to put all your eggs in the proverbial basket.

Design an all in one unit. With optics on board for cam sensing injector pulse width. Combine that with a crank sensor readind a 1970\s style pick up and sending that through the most basic algrorythm, and not yet accounting for belt play, no vvt tech yet etc.
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
10,586
Likes
185
Points
63
Location
St-Hyacinthe, Quebec, Canada
#15
Kicker is HERE. It is an optispark system in a designed to wear distributor, rotating parts are going to wear, spark events will create deposits which detach and cause minuscule particles that will block light path of optisparck system. Crank sensor fries from lack of cooling, it is sitting 2mm from the cam bearing which in itself is creating heat, leading to it predictable demise also.