Low coolant level

DJM1972

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#1
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MAKE:Saturn
MODEL:SC2
YEAR
:1997
MILES:160000
ENGINE
:1.9
DESCRIBE ISSUE....
97 Saturn SC 2 1.9L vin 7


Been busy helping everyone else with there cars and houses. And forgot about my car.

Went and had codes ran today 3-29-16.

  1. P0133-Oxygen sensor circuit slow response Bank 1 Sensor 1

  2. Po341 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range 1

  3. P0420 Catalyst Below threshold

  4. P 1599 Engine stall or near stall detected

  5. P1624 Customer snap shot data available

  6. P 1620 Low coolant circuit

  7. P0656 Fuel level output circuit

  8. P0133 Oxygen sensor

  9. P0420 Catylist below threshold

  10. P0420 Below threshold

Had the Low coolant level warning light come on the other night and again today.

I'm mainly worried about the P 1620 Low coolant circuit.

Because the temp gauge says its running at normal temp. When this low coolant light came on.

I don't have a radiator cap. I have a over flow reservoir. And it says its full. It has a lot of bubbles in it.

With out a radiator cap you can't actually see how much coolant is in it.

Where is the Low coolant circuit sensor at. I think I seen a wire running under the windshield washer reservoir.


I went back out later after it had cooled down and there's plenty of coolant in the overflow.

Maybe its the cap on the overflow. Maybe I could run it without the cap till the thermostat opens and see if the level goes down.
 

billr

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#2
The coolant-level sensor frequently gets flaky on the S-series, it gets crudded up and you may be able to clean it. That isn't an "overflow" tank, that is in the coolant circuit and is pressurized. Take the cap off and you will see a divider an inch or two down in the filler hole, coolant should be up to the top of that divider when cold. Also take a peek in that opening looking back towards the radio antenna, you should see coolant flow coming in there from that small (3/8" OD) hose up there. It may not be a lot, but you should definitely see some flow going across the top of the coolant. There is no cam position (CMP) sensor on this engine, that signal is synthesized by the ICM. The first thing to check there is routing of the plug wires for cylinders 1 and 4 (same coil), make sure they are routed to correct cylinders and coil towers, and aren't crossing over each other
 

nickb2

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#3
Erase all codes, top off coolant level and drive for a drive cycle. NO WAY A p1620 will cause the other codes.

Remove the o2/heater sensor fuses and run car. Does the P1620 and P0656 come back?
 
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nickb2

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#4
Clear all codes and drive again. Post back codes. This is no way a coolant issue if you have the following codes, even on a 1997. The algorithm is quite specific.

Start with the code code P0133
 
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billr

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#6
Alas, there is a part of the above that makes no sense. Under the "P0133 - O2 Response Too Slow" that is described as L-R being less than 94 msec, or R-L being less than 125 msec. That would mean the transitions were happening too fast, right? How can that be compatible with a diag of "too slow"? Also, I have three of these S-series, not a one of them transitions that fast. More like 1 sec/transition. Mine are OBD1, only the one front sensor, but I really doubt the '97 is much faster.
 

nickb2

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#8
Ppl always forget basics. What do plugs look like? White? Compression readings seem to have just been forgotten as a basic check.

When given so many codes such as this, especially on a 1997 sc2, one must consider a lack of maintenance, and if said person states the schedule was adhered to, then one must eliminate one problem at a time. starting with the rip down of primary and secondary and air flow.

These codes do NOT correlate together. There is a large pink elephant in the room here.!!
 

billr

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#9
Agreed, there are a lot of seemingly unrelated codes there. Did they all pop up at the same time? I addressed the coolant-level and CMP issues first only because they are fairly simple to check and I am familiar with them. My point about the Alldata blurb was that I think it is in error, bad info about that one code (P0133).
 

DJM1972

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#11
The coolant-level sensor frequently gets flaky on the S-series, it gets crudded up and you may be able to clean it. That isn't an "overflow" tank, that is in the coolant circuit and is pressurized. Take the cap off and you will see a divider an inch or two down in the filler hole, coolant should be up to the top of that divider when cold. Also take a peek in that opening looking back towards the radio antenna, you should see coolant flow coming in there from that small (3/8" OD) hose up there. It may not be a lot, but you should definitely see some flow going across the top of the coolant. There is no cam position (CMP) sensor on this engine, that signal is synthesized by the ICM. The first thing to check there is routing of the plug wires for cylinders 1 and 4 (same coil), make sure they are routed to correct cylinders and coil towers, and aren't crossing over each other
I bought a new radiator cap. Drained and cleaned out the plastic bottle with dish soap a week ago or so and drove 70 miles yesterday and went out today and noticed the coolant level 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch past full.

I'll keep an eye on this.

But whats slowing me down now are the spark plug wire routing. I found the coil tower order on the emission label under the hood.

4123

I did a little searching and best I could find for cylinder location is:

1 2 3 4 from passenger side to driver's

This is the way its been wired since I bought it 3 1/2 years ago.

I hope this is right.


I did reset the codes and have driven it for a week and no codes have come back yet.

I'm getting ready to leave so I guess I should have waited till I got back to post.


Once I figure out this cylinder location I think I'm going to do a compression test.
 

billr

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#13
"But whats slowing me down now are the spark plug wire routing. I found the coil tower order on the emission label under the hood.

4123
(also from pass side to drivers)

I did a little searching and best I could find for cylinder location is:

1 2 3 4 from passenger side to driver's"


Yes, those are correct; and yes, #1 & 4 do have to be on correct towers to get proper "CKP" signal
 

DJM1972

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#14
Compression Test

Cyl. #1 Went to 210 and leaked to 90 and held. I didn't have the tester tight enough in the spark plug well. After I did all 4 I came back and retested this one.
Retest Cyl. #1: Went over 210 and held
Cyl. #2: Went to 210 and stayed
Cyl. #3: 200 and stayed
Cyl. #4: 200 and held but it took twice as many cranks say 12 and the other took say 6 cranks.

Summary: I wish I would have counted how many times each cylinder cranked. Instead of counting each crank I waited for the needle to stop climbing at 210.

Cyl. 1,2, and 3 seemed reasonably close to one another.
#4 Seemed a little iffy to me though. I'm guessing it took about 2 times as long to reach 210.

CP7827-Instructions for Compression Tester
Test Results:
Diagnosis Number 2: If the needle fails to travel up-scale as described in Step 1 or if it remains at the same value for several strokes and then starts to climb, the cylinder has a sticking valve.

Its been 2 weeks since I unplugged the battery to reset the codes and none have come back. I've driven it countless time in the last 2 weeks. Usually once a day.

The coolant level problem seems to be under control.

Last weekend it was around 32 degrees and I went to jump into my car to go home and it wouldn't start. I cranked it 6 times or so nothing. 6 more times nothing. Tried again and hit the gas pedal and it spitted and putted and started rough.

Fuel system. P0656 Fuel level output circuit

Can't figure out why my check engine light won't come back on.
 
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#15
Can't figure out why my check engine light won't come back on.

might need to run to see if it fails the tests before codding...

sure sounds like a fuel issue - hard start no codes.