New clutch no 5th or hard shift

[Tkessler999]

Confirm: by "free play" you mean axial movement of the crank, by prying it at either the belt pulley or flywheel as I described?

I am used to clutch "free play" as being how much the clutch pedal will move before the throw-out bearing contacts the fingers of the pressure plate. With a hydraulic clutch that should always be near-zero; but is no indication of the crank end/free-play.

Yes axially the free play is minimal

 

[Tkessler999]

OK, we need to wait for somebody to advise if there is a definitive test for the slave travel.

With the engine off, is the shifting normal in all the forward gears? Sometimes shifting into R will be iffy with the engine off because there is no syncro for R, but try R too and report what you get.

With engine off it is the same, no 5th or no 3rd and 4th

 

[Tkessler999]

ok it sound's like we have air in the fluid still i use a vaccum bleeder at my shop but you might need to bleed it again if it still has a hang up it could be internal or you might take it to a shop and have them check it out

Ok I'll bleed it again this afternoon and let you know

 

[billr]

With the engine off, usually no clutch operation at all is needed to shift into the forward gears. This is sounding more like a trans/shifter problem. Was the shift linkage disconnected from the trans when the clutch was replaced?

 

[Tkessler999]

OK, we need to wait for somebody to advise if there is a definitive test for the slave travel.

With the engine off, is the shifting normal in all the forward gears? Sometimes shifting into R will be iffy with the engine off because there is no syncro for R, but try R too and report what you get.

Shifting is the same. No 5th or no 3rd and 4th and no reverse. I have to be stopped of course to force reverse then I get 3 and 4 back but lose 5th

 

[Tkessler999]

With the engine off, usually no clutch operation at all is needed to shift into the forward gears. This is sounding more like a trans/shifter problem. Was the shift linkage disconnected from the trans when the clutch was replaced?

Hydralic clutch no shift linkage

 

[Tkessler999]

Hydralic clutch no shift linkage

Or am I misunderstanding

 

[billr]

Yes, you misunderstood. I am talking about whatever the linkage is between the shift lever in the cabin and the shift arms on the trans. That may even be hydraulic, but it will still be a system entirely separate from the clutch and its hydraulics.

 

[Mobile Dan]

apparently 2000 Rodeo uses this same "Pull-Type" clutch setup.

 

[Mobile Dan]

more info.

 

[Tkessler999]

OK, we need to wait for somebody to advise if there is a definitive test for the slave travel.

With the engine off, is the shifting normal in all the forward gears? Sometimes shifting into R will be iffy with the engine off because there is no syncro for R, but try R too and report what you get.

No shifting is the same, I have 1-4 and no 5 or no 3,4 and reverse

 

[Tkessler999]

Yes, you misunderstood. I am talking about whatever the linkage is between the shift lever in the cabin and the shift arms on the trans. That may even be hydraulic, but it will still be a system entirely separate from the clutch and its hydraulics.

The shifter in the cabin just sits down into the transmission

 

[billr]

I suppose I should ask if this is 2WD or 4WD, but I don't think it makes any real difference. I peeked at what pictures I could find of the trans, and they show that the linkage is all internal to the trans, no apparent adjustment or any way to disturb the adjustment. So, if there is a problem there, it in inside the trans.

Do you understand what my theory is; that if it won't shift properly with the engine not running, then clutch problems can be dismissed?

Raise the drive wheels, and release brakes, so those wheels can turn as freely as possible. Then try the shifting again with the engine off. If shifting is still bad with the wheels free to turn, then almost certainly this is a trans problem. Want to be even more certain? Disconnect the drive-shaft so that there is virtually no resistance to the gears lining up when you try engine-off shifting. Again, it should make little-to-no difference if the clutch is engaged or dis-engaged with engine off, but see if you can detect any significant difference.

 

[Mobile Dan]

Long shot theory...what if a mainshaft bearing retainer ring broke and fell off, and now the action of the shift forks moves the mainshaft sometimes forward and sometimes backwards and that disables/enables shift fork functions?

 

[NickD]

Takes me back to the 80's like about 40 years ago, also 40 years younger. Mostly Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's if I didn't use OEM parts would have to do the job again, clutch chatter like crazy. Back in the 50's with MT's, about a three hour job, shops would resurface the flywheel, pressure plate, new linings on the clutch for about six bucks. Throwout bearing was the first example of a very limited lubricated bearing, was well worth two bucks for a new one, at most a three hour job doing it alone.

These FWD cars a PITA, first problem half axles were rusted in permanently in the hub bearings. Transaxle had the body mounts, engine required major support, would break all kinds of AC, fuel, and electrical lines. Shifting mechanism on the center console to the transaxle is a maze of complex components, also have a neutral safety switch in someplace.

Dropping just a transmission was easy in RWD vehicle, in FWD or 4WD also have a differential in there. In production would shove the entire engine and suspension from the bottom, dropping it with all that other stuff was a twist and turn operation, really kind of heavy for even a tough guy like I use to be, needed guys with ropes on top. And the car had to be high lying on a creeper to be pulled out with that transaxle on your gut.

Hydraulic clutches were stupid, just like brakes, they will always leak, like your front disc brakes was inherently self adjustable, but also like your brake master cylinder that rubber cup wears out as does the slave cylinder buried in the transaxle. Preferred Honda's with a mechanical engagement, when the clutch pedal got low, just two clicks and back to normal again, when you got to the yellow line, time to replace the clutch.

Should be able to shift through all your gears standing still, engine running, clutch disengaged, linkage on these things are a brain twister and as I said a long ride from the center console to the top of that transaxle. With your kind of mileage replacing both the slave and master cylinder is a must, no need to tell you this is a labor intensive job.

I used my machine lathe to cut a dowel to fit tightly to perfectly align the clutch with the center hole when attaching the pressure plate, if just a 1/32nd of an inch off, will never get that shaft in. These were always a full weekend job.