old school vs new

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#1
I am old school - trans service - drop pan, big mess, remove filter, new gasket refill with the CORRECT fluid.

When I went to chevrolet to get the gasket & filter.... they had to look this up? I'm puzzled So I asked and the discussion went - GM recommends a flush no filter change and therefor no gasket -

I am spring loaded against* recommending a flush the stories of sludge being 'stirred' up etc... SO gang anyone want to get me up to speed on this - good- bad- indifferent ?


*old fart thinking...
 

bp042665

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#2
well i don't recommend a tranny flush with out a filter change the newer transmission come with a reusable pan gasket
 

billr

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#3
Obviously, I am a novice with transmissions; but I am a "drop the pan" guy. Maybe that flush routine is being promoted by dealers to avoid come-back for a pan leak caused by the R & R of that?
 

jasonn20

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#4
These transmission flushes have a higher tendency of becoming a dis-service than removing the pan and replacing the filter.

The sump exam can indicate a healthy trans or not.
 

nickb2

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#5
ok, my $.02, some trannies don't even have filters anymore. Sometimes i have flushed tranys and they still gave out. I have seen sometimes doing a flush or filter change actually killed the damn tranny. To many ppl do not heed reguler maintenance as said in book that is in glove box that came with said car!!!!!!!!!! I am 39yrs old, and a old fart at times, but i find this to be true. :ROFL But I will stand by good old valvoline!! $.02 Unless it is a GM :ROFL
 

nickb2

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#6
@jasonn20, plz educate me, what is a sump exam, or try to find a french term. Will do my own research, interesting term 8)

Sump exam sounds like a painful docter thing with white gloves and he laughs, once had a chinese docter tell me this will hurt you more than me. Walked right out that office so fast :ROFL Never pulled down my shorts :thx
 
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#9
50's Hydramatic's had a drain plug on the torque converter housing, dey don't do dis anymore. A guy could drain everything. One good reason to periodically change the filter is to get a new O-ring so it sucks fluid and not air.

TH-400 was toast, filter could be cleaned with a little solvent, but put a new one in anyway. But let's say the bottom of the pan looked like a hardware store. Books say finding under a teaspoon full of grindings is normal, more than this, you have problems.

Not to give away my age, but can remember when automatic transmissions had dipsticks.
 

nickb2

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#10
Was fixing a mercedes not so long ago, could not get access to dipstick without a special tool. I have done dealer work, sometimes doing general work is so frustrating, you want to smash everything. Even the car. :ROFL

Gm's now day's, there is a small 8mm or 10mm bolt, can't remember, near right side drive shaft. When doing maintenance, need to hoist this and wait till atf fluid pours out of this very small hole. Try doing that without making a mess :eek: I dare anyone here on this site to tell me that they did not make a mess while doing a tranny flush old style. ;D

I have done thousand's of old school tranny flushes, always a dirty shirt and floor. :ROFL I got soaked so
many times, could not see my name tag on my shirt and ex wife screamed at me. ouch How do you think this all gets paid, anyway, that is another discussion. That's why she is my ex 8)

However I do like old school, give's me a bigger picture of what is going inside, I like to see the color of internals and crap on magnet/ if they make them anymore. :eek:

Damn, had to modify again, with the new "special flush machine's" I trust them, but if want it right, labor/experience is the best tool, cuz a machine don't have a frontal lobe and cerebral cortex, just the dude pressing the button and picking his nose and hooking adapters that any preschooler can do. But try this selling to a client when service want's a bonus on a cheap flush. :p
 

nickb2

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#11
Not to give away my age, :ROFL You must be way older than most wrenches here. Yet I must say, you rock. I have learned alot from you and really appreciate.

I am looking forward for better things than just getting older. Nickd, you and Billr and all other wrenches here a inspiration for me. 8)

Wish I could play a few g chords with mobile dan. I am going to hospital soon, so will post back when I get better. Don't know how long but life is life. Not looking for pity, but you all have been here for a while and when you see something like that, you know the endeavor is good. Kudos to everyone ;D

I love this site 8)
 

billr

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#12
I gotta ask... have they eliminated auto-trans dipsticks on newer cars? The "newest" I have is '97, but it certainly has one.
 

nickb2

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#13
Mercedes and chrysler and others also.

Here is a link to one of the special tool you need. What happened to just normal dipsticks?http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mercedes-Transmission-Fluid-Dipstick-Tool-722-6-Color-140589152100-Jeep-Chrysler-/181113581728

This is crazy but have to deal with it. I made my own after the other "SPECIAL tool" I bought gave out.

I used a home depot wire and crimps and made my own. :idea: I used clothes line wire and crimps. Hey it works. Sometimes you have to be ingenious.

Not my writing;

MB dealer sells the dipstick for about $35. If you look closely in the engine compartment (on the passenger side, towards the firewal), there is a dipstick pipe with a red cap/seal. If you remove that seal, you'll have to buy a new one (less than 50 cents).

Open the hood and remove the plastic engine cover, you will see what I am talking about. Go to the dealer and buy that "special tool" dipstick.
 

jasonn20

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#14
kev2 said:
I am old school - trans service - drop pan, big mess, remove filter, new gasket refill with the CORRECT fluid.
In general, when a customer wants a trans service done the first question that should be asked is "are you having any problems". This is fairly common for people to experience a problem with there vehicle and think getting the transmission serviced will fix it. Sometimes a trans problem may only happen when the trans is cold and getting information from the customer is important. It seems fairly common that engine misfire(s) can make a person think there trans is slipping.
The second thing is checking proper fluid level and condition. The condition is pretty well about the odor and color of the fluid. This can take some experience. The fluid can be darkish and this can be considered normal wear depending on the mileage, last service, and even the model of trans. The odor can be tricky to learn since there are dozens of different transmission fluids but the main thing is determining if the fluid has a burnt odor or not and the fluid smells close to new fluid. The smell of the fluid can tell a lot to an experienced transmission tech/mechanic.
The third step would be pulling the vehicles codes. This can give helpful information on slippage, electrical faults, engine running issues and so on.
The forth step would be the test drive to verify proper operation, noises, etcc..
If all of the above steps pass and there is no indication at this point that the trans is not healthly then removing the pan would be the last step. The sump exam is removing the trans pan and inspecting it for any sign that the trans is not healthly. In general, the only time a transmssion should be serviced is if it is found to be healthly. This can take some experience as different transmission models have different characteristics. The crysler a518 for instance can have a bit of metal in the pan a be considered normal where a different trans with that same amout of metal would not be considered normal. If the transmission has been considered to be healthy then servicing it should not cause any problems. The best method is to remove the pan and change the filter. Will discuss the flush machines when I have more time.... to be continued..