POO16 on 2003 Toyota Camry

Jim Fairbanks

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Make
Toyota
Model
camry
Year
2003
Miles
220000
Engine
2.4
Hey guys....I have 2003 toyota camry,2.4 I am working on that keeps throwing a POO16. When I google it seems like it is a problem with a loose timing chain or jumped a tooth. Alldata says it is a cam and crank sensor correlation.I haven't tried replacing either one.I pulled the valve cover and the timing chain doesn't look like it is loose. I was just wondering if there is something I can do to get rid of the code without replacing the chain..Anybody have any ideas? thanks for the help....Jim
 

billr

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I gotta ask... is this an interference engine? If so, I would sure want to ensure timing is correct, not just "get rid of the code". A non-loose chain may not mean much, there is probably a tensioner for it that will keep it tight until disaster hits.
 

NickD

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See Toyota finally got rid of that rubber band in place of a chain, use to check these out with a socket wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt to rock it back and forth to feel how much play is between the crank and camshafts.

Have crankshaft and camshaft sensors, not sure about the Toyota, most are Hall Effect Sensors. but the sensors can be okay, and the ECU needs a refresh. Claim flashram code is only good for ten years. Supra code is burnt in, will last forever. Other cars with flashram, didn't worry about them losing code, body was a pile of rust after 8 years.
 

nickb2

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Hey jim, gotta say a special hi to you, cuz your still getting dirty.

Best way to know if chain is off is to hook a vac gauge to it. I bet this toy engine did not jump, but if it did, it will show on vac.

These engines are not known for timing chain issues, actually extremely rare. But it may happen. But I must focus on the words extremely rare. And yes, I am a toy fan boy.

So this is me actually going out on a limb here and saying the most times I encounter a code like this on a toy, it is always the cam shaft position sensor that is at fault or the VVT solenoid actually more often. Most often, just a gunk issue, and fix that with an engine flush, and ford 5.4l engines were notorios for these codes. THEY actually had major problems with timing chains disasters. Not toyota, and again, disclaimer here, anything can happen in life. But in my 28ish yrs now in this trade, NEVER ever seen a camry or rav or matrix with a 2.4l jump time unless it was seriously neglected.

You could scope to be sure if you have the time. But as most techs know, these engines are rock solid.

My first thing to do when I see a correlation code like this is vac gauge, if getting good reading, timing is ok, and half the time it is a gunked up VVT solenoid. So I pull it out, see if screen is clogged or cracked.

I would not start pulling to much off this engine and just try to replace the VVT solenoid and maybe the cam shaft sensor.

@billr in principle, the 2.4l engine is not a interference engine.
 

nickb2

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In the industry some call them oil control valves, which essentially that is what they are, they have made better ones now, so look that up. I may find a link to that today if I have time.

Ok, found it in my mitchel database, and yes, this is the most obviuos fix as I stated above. The filter they talk about, is not replaceable, so dont try, just replace the solenoid with an updated one or stock one, and I rarely say this about other members, but do not heed the other nicks advice for reflashing, has nothing to do with your type of code. There is no reflash that can correct a ginked up VVT solenoid, Sorry @ other nick. ;).

I hope this helps you out to get rid of that code without taking apart the front of this engine for nothing, ;):bat::beer::beer::beer:

pdf is printable, if you need more, just ask. I would do anything for you jim, you were a awesome contributor back in the day, and you deserve upmost respect in my eye. :cool: ok, not every thing, but I would do more for you than the average OP here. My gf just laughed when I wrote that, she said, would you wash his feet? So yeah, I do have limits.
 

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NickD

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17 year old vehicle with 220,000 miles on it not kilometers and how has it been driver over these years? Not nearly as good at some drag strip engines, and they are only good for two runs.

Does have hydraulic valve timing and what kind of engine oil was used. Lot of people use dyno oil, its cheaper, so many unknown factors. And yes, people have problems with engine control computers, had some that could not be reflashed so had to buy new ones.
 

Jim Fairbanks

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thanks Nick...I appreciate what you said....Yeah,71 and I still work on cars almost every day...I guess till I die...lol...thanks everybody for your input...I did replace the vvt solenoid and the p0016 is still there....Jim
 

nickb2

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last ditch before tearing into it, try risolene or similar. A sort of engine flush. We use a valvoline kit at work that helps with these corrolation codes. But I have heard risolene works good also.

But if you can, plz post back a vac reading. If it has jumped time, you will see that in the live data and on vac. The other nick did mention that the miles were in fact miles, and my canadian brain automatically went there. but yeah, at 400000k kilometers, it would be a logical thing to think about, chain stretch I mean. So for that, I must apologize to the other nick. Hope he takes my apology in good stride. ;)
 

billr

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I gotta ask... are vacuum readings all that reliable or definitive with VVT? Are there published "normal" readings for what vacuum should be with VVT? I think vacuum readings should certain.y be different from what I am used to without VVT.
 

nickb2

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As with my usual disclaimers, I am just going by experience. At idle, regardless of being a vvt engine or not, the phasers dont matter. If vac is 17 or better, regardless, engine has NOT jumped time.

If the the engine jumped time, it will show on a trusty old vac gauge. As a diag tech, this tool is the most less used tool with the advent of new scanners and the available data. Most techs still have one avalailable, but dont use them anymore. Probably a lazyness aproach here, and I wish more techs would go back to basics.


And since I KNOW you dont like it when I infantalize stuff, so if we look at the fuel trims, and in conjunctivitis with a good manifold vac port reading, it is a very reliable tool to use even on a vvt system.

I had this in my bookmarks, it comes from a great guy on the net, scanner danner.

It may not answer your question fully, but reading what is in this link may help to properly understand what I am TRYING to say.

quote from site

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.


Knowing this car does not have a algorithm pre programmed into it as the vvt in this 2003 era car didnt go this far. I want you to maybe take a gander at this site. These guys are way scary intellectual and probably write better than me,

How are you measuring the manifold vacuum, exactly? Is this with Global OBD data, or with an actual gauge?

If it's Global data, then usually some math is involved to get the real value. Usually, you have to take the BARO value and subtract the MAP value to get what an actual gauge would show. As an example, if your MAP shows 10 inHg and the BARO is 29 inHg, then your true vacuum level is 19 inHg.

Since you're at sea level, 29.9 inHg, subtracting 13 gets you 16 inHg. That's not great, but it's not horrible, either.
:silly:
16 inHg might be reasonable depending on when the measurement was taken. During a cold idle, for example. Or if this engine has VVT, and is programmed to change the valve timing at idle for emissions purposes.


 

nickb2

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Most vvt systems are not active at idle. SO on a cold engine at idle, best time to check vac.

Not my writing, someone better than me wrote this.

HOW Varible Valve Timing Works

There are a variety of different VVT systems in use today. The most common type use a camshaft actuator or "phaser" mounted on the cam drive gear, and an oil flow control valve solenoid that routes oil pressure to the cam phaser.


Most VVT systems are not active at idle, and only come into play at higher engine speeds or when the engine is under load. The rest of the time, VVT is just along for the ride.
 
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nickb2

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I think vacuum readings should certain.y be different from what I am used to without VVT.
read last sentence of last red post. No difference at idle. ANd that is cohesive to what I see ever day. Some subarues may differ, but they are on a different strategy. BMW also and other nice stuff I see in my bay and sometimes plural. I really hope every thing I just wrote, or other smarter guys than me wrote exact same thing helps you for that question. BTW, just want to say a quick shout out to you and your significant other, hope calif is doing ok, up here, wind is a hella.

I saw on news lately, again, fires down there. Wowzer. You guys dont get a break. :eek:
 
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billr

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"Or if this engine has VVT, and is programmed to change the valve timing at idle for emissions purposes. "

You quoted that in reply #11. You personal experience is probably most relevant here, but there is no technical reason why the idle timing could not be being affected by the VVT. Even if the VVT mechanism is not active at idle, the "static" idle timing probably is different than it would have been without VVT. Without VVT there must be a compromise between best idle and best power/efficiency at higher rpm.

I certainly don't know how much difference VVT will make on vacuum (idle MAP), and it probably varies with engine type. I was just suggesting that old-time vacuum readings may not be quite right for a VVT engine.
 
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