The woes of reflashing and right to repair act.

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
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Since I have a day off cuz I have one eye shut due to a work related incident/ got something in eye and now infected swollen shut,. I can still see somewhat out of my left eye and can still type.

Chrylser, first of all really sucks in the aftermarket for this arena of discussion.

After trying a full day yestarday at shop with co workers to guide me to see small print on laptop, could not for the life of me flash a chrysler 200 2013 model year.

Had 2 j2534 interfaces on hand, one is a very reputable drew tech, the other one a chinese autel elite maxi flash, bought tech authority subscription, followed download as per chrylser pdf j2534 document, could never find a way to get to server. Tried sixten times to unistal, re install all god dang stuf they told me to do.

Just to find out that now mopar is pushing, no, not proper term, obligating us aftermarket guys that have balls to reflash, we now have to use wi tech. Hence another tool we have to buy that obviously is being funded by mopar to circumvent right to repair act.

So now, I have to convince my boss to buy another interface for mopar only. Which will not be an easy thing. He has a hard time knowing why we need a pico.

This is one company that is trying real hard to circumvent law by just trying to make it harder for the aftermarket tech to flash their crap.

You don't see that with honda or toyota, bmw is very aftermarket friendly in the coding and flash dept. They are even in bed with autel.

I am frustrated at mopar cuz this is just going to be a down hill battle for them, but, I, as a supposed master tech look like a fool when servers won't recognize their own servers because they don't play ball ball in the J2534 arena like other manufacturers.

Here is a snapshot of what happens.

Plz read the "please be advised"

Tech support said shyte about that. In fact, I think I spoke better english than the guy answering me. :eek::oops:o_O

Screenshot (45).png
 

nickb2

Wrench. Diagnostic Tech.
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I also like the last line, (I could not copy paste as the site is on a paid subscription). So I will just fancy around here.

ALL J2534 users are encouraged to start using witech 2.0.


Yeah, that being said, your f ing witech software won't recognize my two previously globally accepted j2534 interfaces. Really, where do I get one and how much does it cost? 3600$!!!:eek: Where does it end?

Cuz a clone one off e bay may just do the thing. But my boss won't buy a clone, and I understand why, he has to put that in budget. And I seem to think he wants legit tools to work with, but cannot justify buying a 3600$ tool for just 1 flash.

This with the advent of ADAS, where does a reputable aftermarket shop start turning clients away for proprietary stuff, which by law should be open source now?

I know this may seem like a rant, and in its form it is. But as an actual end user, the hoops you have to go through are ridiculous.

Here is a link to what mopar WANTS me to buy to flash a post 2010 vehicle from them as of 09/01/2019.

https://www.aeswave.com/mopar-micropod-ii-with-witech-2-0-p9404.html
 

nickb2

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This reminds me of the hoover vacuum company trying to beat the client out of a deal cuz they were going under.

Fluster the client enough to not go through hoops to get 2 round trip tickets on a plane to usa and back to england if you buy x vacuum. They may just forget about the promised deal. Nope, clients remember shyte like that. I saw this on a show called "how to go f your self"

They sure sold alot of vacuum cleaners, but went under because some idiot thought offering a deal on flight packages was going to outweigh the inevitable outcome. Nope.

Chrysler is doing the same.

Sales will continue to dwindle if they don't open source like others cuz the client now days is becoming more aware.
 

billr

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My complaint: why is there even a need/desire to "re-flash"??? Did they not finish the R&D before releasing the product? Is the RAM they are using that fragile?

Vehicles keep getting more complex and expensive to both buy and maintain; a trend inspired by us, the consumers that buy products with ever-increasing gadgets, the voters that empower a nanny-government, and the juries that reward ambulance-chasers.
 

jigfeett

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Software is a daily change and it must be updated but often is missed when needed.
Look at Boeing 737 max grounded because of software over 400 planes built and sitting now production is halted, people will forget until the next problem.
software is a demon in disguise. All the different modules to program and update some times an update is to fix and update, ironic.
People we are headed to idiocracy.
I hate Chryslers. and now they are going to be even more euro.
 

NickD

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OBD I used burnt in code, had to be done right the first time, no playing around on the internet for updates, a chip capable of handling all the emission standards cost 89 cents in quantity. Was just for the engine back then.

OBD II in 1996 was the first to use EEROM eraseable electrically read only memory, more commonly call flashram. No more need to send out new chips for updates and only if required by the EPA, that year we had the internet. But back then Ford, GM, and Chrysler has special computers that would cost a dealer a huge fortune.

Code was only available from the manufacturer, in 1999, the California Supreme ordered that it would be available to independents. One company could supply this code, been a long time, but as I recall it was $1,500.00 per vehicle for a one year subscription, can't stay in business with this price.

Kind of like my Hyundai Elantra Limited, can connect the radio to my WiFi and update the four BCM's and Can software at home. It finds the site and checks for updates. Manual says to run the engine, can take over two hours, I connect a DC power supply that outputs pure DC at 13.5 volts. That fools the computer into thinking the engine is running, that would be around 4-5 gallons of gas saved. But the EPA insists the ECU must be done by the dealer, don't ask me why, only met A-holes in the EPA since 1972 when they were first appointed. And yes, they do not know the difference between their hole and a hole in the ground.

Lot of dealers don't even know how to switch on the computer, and find the correct software for you vehicle, can take them an hour at hundred bucks an hour.

EEPROM is suppose to hold memory for at least ten years under ideal conditions. Automotive goes through some major temperature changes, leakage current doubles every 10*C that can leak off that tiny charge in an FET.

With the high price of copper, practically all the BCM's and ECU have been moved to the engine compartment to save on heavy gauge wire. exposing these components to more servere temperatures. Software guys that write the code don't know anything about electronics.

Trusted OBD I, but ever since II came along, paying for towing insurance.

Carburetor has nothing to do with electricity. Old Ignition was 12 volts to the coil to the breaker points to ground, simple, super simple. Now fuel and ignition has to go through a million transistor to do there job, if just one fails, you are screwed. Even headlamp switching became extremely complicated. Oh, a huge price we are paying for our vehicles today goes toward liability insurance. Completely nuts in aviation.
 

nickb2

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Even headlamp switching became extremely complicated. Oh, a huge price we are paying for our vehicles today goes toward liability insurance. Completely nuts in aviation.
In regards to aviation, I know nothing about. But would probably find my hole from a hole in there. And if you say it is completely nuts, I most ashamedly believe you. My sister was a stewardess for air canada for 18 or so yrs. She told me some stuff, but not being in the tech dept of that industry, her diatribes if you may, where still clear. Mind boggling the innuendoes some of the ground crew has to go through. Pilot error, my arse. Auto-pilot drives the plane 3/4 of the time if not more. What crashes planes more in my opinion, ppl. Much like cars. But sometimes, you do get huge mechanical failure mostly due to bad info, bad work force with bad info, or a bug in the system again cause by the guy or gall who coded it in the first place. Same as cars now days. So, as you aptly wrote, sure don't get that with an old piper.

Sometimes, I think there is more tech in a MB ml350 than a modern airliner. ( I am mostly wrong on that, just making a point. If I have to deal with this kind of tech on a college degree, you are not paying me enough):eek:o_O:giveup:$.02

As an aftermarket tech, the hoops I have to go through, for this right to repair act, (we have our canadian version, almost identical to US) are also mind boggling. Sometimes, we outsource because of some head honcho saying to limit expenditures, but harasses us or me for not giving client 1 time fix. Give me access, I will fox it. It is my job, but I can't pull a reflash out my booger nose and sneeze at this problem, if you get my drift. This is what we call hand cuffing and placing blame the on the handcuffed man. Useless.

Anyway, happy new years to all, lets hope lobby makes headway room here, but it seems that it is back peddling more than going further. Manufacturers are finding more ways to do exactly that. As I progress in this trade, it just seems to get worse. Especially for the end user, / you, the client.

Other day, dude comes in, has an audi a3 with bells and whistles. Back up, proximity sensors, screen that comes out of dash like in a fast and furious movie type deal. Guy is a car guy, likes doing his own lube and stuff. But since he bought the car, he just comes to us for his maintenance, cuz we/I have a capable scanner of getting rid of his periodic maintenance message.

Thats audis way of saying you got to keep coming to us. As a car guy myself, that would piss me off in the most humongous way. I can change oil, reset oil service reminder with onboard screen, but can't reset the service one mandated???????? by audi!!

Mind you, audi is just an example. All of them are doing that right now. Handcuffing the client. It is mostly a scare tactic for the un educated in vehicle repair. Which is most of the human population. Hence the dwindling traffic on this site. Most do it yourselfers are getting frustrated, giving in, and THAT is exactly what THEY want.

End of 2019 rant. More 2020 coming soon. ;):bat:
 
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