Transmission Flush vs. Drop Pan/Filter change method??

Transman

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#16
I am not stating that flushing is not a good thing in some cases but my concern is that it definitely is not a good thing in all cases! The bean counters that see extra profits from a quick service and hype can seriously hurt your transmission. They train one guy to do the job or maybe two, we never look for shortcuts do we? After a bit these guys show another guy how to use the machine omitting what they don't like to do or worse leave so the next guy has to learn what to do by trial and error. Then they put in this "universal" fluid that the machine manufacturer says will work in all transmissions with no problem, trust me on this one. If there were a universal fluid that meets the spec of every car manufacturer....think about this one.... Don't you think they would jump on it? If there were only one fluid then the price of fluid would go way down because it wouldn't need all these different additive packages blended inside. The cost of producing a car would go down too, this is the reason ffford used one less quart of trans fluid at the assembly plant.... Look at all the money they made. The last thing you need inside your automatic trans is a "cleaner" (of which you cannot get all of it out). If your clutches are just a bit burned, this cleaner might be the chemical that removes the very parts that are keeping it moving. The bottom line is service is a very good thing at the proper intervals and with the proper fluid. I hate to generalize but the truth is that most people do not think of servicing their transmissions until it is doing something wrong, of course they will deny it. That is the point that it is too late to start servicing. At that point they should sell, fix, or drive it till it explodes and junk it. It's like lighting a match then blowing it out, it's not hot anymore but the burned part is still there.
At this point, not to be mean or nasty Ranger, but your transmissions days are numbered. Black fluid is a serious problem, the black came from something inside your trans, transmission fluid never wears out or becomes anything else, the additive package does though and that is the reason you need to change your fluid at regular intervals. The fact that you think it shifts better means you waited too long. This is only my opinion and I can support it with years of experience in the trade. I did not say anything here to hurt anyones feelings or make them feel inadequate or angry. That is not what this is about, the more people know about these flushing machines and what is actually going on inside their transmission the better life they will get and less chance they will be bilked out of their hard earned money, imagine paying somebody money to hurt your transmission. I would be P***d off. Transman
 
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#17
Re: Fluid Type??

Hey Transman,

I wanted to Thank You for all the information!! I for one really appreciate the input you have provided.

A question for you? I wanted to get your opinion??

After doing the pan drop on my trans .. I took it over to a local guy to just do a fluid exchange ... no cleaners or chemicals. I have an 03 Ford F150 with the 4R70W trans. He told me he used Mercon V fluid. I thought Ok ... anyway after the fact ... I found that he used Valvoline Max Life DexronIII/Mercon. My truck/trans only has 30K on it and of course this MaxLife is supposed to be for vehicles with 75K or more. Yes it does say on the back that its rated for Mercon V. I thought he was going to use Valvoline MerconV fluid ..... which they do make .. think it comes in a blue bottle.

Anyway .... was wondering what your thoughts might be? This would not have been trans fluid I would have picked out.

What do you think?? Anything I should be worried about....
 
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#18
??? O my Now somebody has done messed up. And as we have been trying to tell you a flush is not good in most cases and a flush with the wrong fluid is even double not good.
I am not transman but I can tell you this you or the person that put dexron 111 in it has done messed up things.
How long have you drove it that way?
I would take it back and have a big tissie fit.
And demand that he refush it at least 2 times with the merco V fluid on his dime and watch him to make sure he does it.
If you want to save the transmission you will now need one or two transmission flushes to get that crap out of there.
Your transmission is made to use mercon V.
I would flush it good with about 20-24 qts of Mercon V and drive it a couple of hindered miles and do it one more time.
Then hope for the best.
Good luck
Crunch
 

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#19
OUCH! Crunch is right. The spec is for mercon V only and they cannot be mixed *Big disclaimer* Have a Hissie and a Fit, this really is bad. Actually is sounds more like the "universal fluid" I was talking about. There is no fluid that can meet dex III/mercon and Mercon V, one is petroleum and the other is synthetic. This is the reason they do not play well together. Seriously it has to come out. Transman
 

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#20
OK I'm a little slow here, my fluid was dark but left some red on a towel are you guys saying that is a sign that something is wrong and that Tramsmission fluid doesn't change colors over time? Please reply because if it's true several people lied to me including Toyota! I was even told it didn't look as bad as they thought from hearing me. Now im really confused!
 

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#21
First let me say that I an find something wrong in a trans with 50 miles on it if I need to. I did not see how dark your fluid was so I cannot make a judgement call on that one. I will stand by what I said that fluid darkens from internal problems. My truck has 180k on it and the fluid looks like the day it rolled off the showroom floor, bright and cherry red. I do service it regularly, I do not baby it.
You cannot mix those fluids, that stands. The fluid called for your vehicle is Mercon V. Transman
Hoping this helped un-confuse you some.
P.S. Ford is coming out with a transmission that will only be in production for one model year, it will also take a special fluid anything else will cause the solenoids to literally melt down. How does the thought behind that one grab ya!
 
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#22
Ranger said:
OK I'm a little slow here, my fluid was dark but left some red on a towel are you guys saying that is a sign that something is wrong and that Tramsmission fluid doesn't change colors over time? Please reply because if it's true several people lied to me including Toyota! I was even told it didn't look as bad as they thought from hearing me. Now im really confused!
Ranger
This post was about a 03 ford F-150.
Which is a long ways from a 93 corolla
If you need help on your corolla start a new Post/tread.
Two different car and trucks on on post gets rather confusing. :)
About fluid.
Transmission fluid is only red because they put red dye in it just like food coloring.
How red or brown it is the amount of dye in it. Not the condition of fluid.
Some brands of fluid have very little dye and will get brown after a short time and some have a lot of dye and will have red after the transmission is burnt to a crisp.
To just pull a dip stick and look at the fluid color is not a very clear picture of the transmission.
Unless it comes out black and smells burnt or doped. :)
You need to pull the pan and see what is in the bottom of pan and look at the filter.
Not flush it out and make it red again.
That is where just a regular drop pan and change filter service transmission comes into play.
 
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#23
Yep .. this what he used: http://www.valvoline.com/products/Maxlife%20ATF.pdf


He told me he used straight MerconV fluid and I trusted him. He showed me the bottle and on the back its rated for MerconV. He now will not do anything about it. He syas its one of the best fluids going today and uses it regularly.


I'll call a local trans shop that supposedly has a good rep in town and see what they say / what type of fluid they use / and how much.


Thanks for the input.
 

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#24
That fluid is rated dexIII and Mercon... NOT Mercon V. He put the wrong fluid in your trans, period! You may tell him that you will have an easy time in court providing proof of the required spec and what he put inside your trans as well as a printout that states that these fluids do not mix. He needs to get that out of your tranny. It's almost as bad as putting gear oil inside your engine and telling you that he does it all the time and that makes it right. The engineers that designed that trans obviously don't know as much about the inner workings of this trans as this moron that did your flush. Here again is another example of the bad things that can happen from a flush, I realize it could and does happen on a pan drop also but that won't prove my point, lol. Unfortunately this is not a laughing matter. Good Luck on your quest, Transman
 

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#25
crunch said:
Ranger
This post was about a 03 ford F-150.
Which is a long ways from a 93 corolla
If you need help on your corolla start a new Post/tread.
Two different car and trucks on on post gets rather confusing. :)
About fluid.
Transmission fluid is only red because they put red dye in it just like food coloring.
How red or brown it is the amount of dye in it. Not the condition of fluid.
Some brands of fluid have very little dye and will get brown after a short time and some have a lot of dye and will have red after the transmission is burnt to a crisp.
To just pull a dip stick and look at the fluid color is not a very clear picture of the transmission.
Unless it comes out black and smells burnt or doped. :)
You need to pull the pan and see what is in the bottom of pan and look at the filter.
Not flush it out and make it red again.
That is where just a regular drop pan and change filter service transmission comes into play.
Thanks to you and Transman for the help, it is confusing. My Corolla's fluid was dark but had no bad smell. They showed me the insides of the pan and said that was also not bad which I was hoping for. I just replaced the fuel filter and it looked original and filled with black gunk so I thought the transmission fluid would be the same, but again they said that was not the case! Next car I will insist on not using barrel fluid.
 

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#26
Ranger, even though this is not the right thread for this, this info does apply. There is nothing wrong with "Barrel Fluid". Barrel fluid is just bulk fluid, the problem comes in with the application. We get fluid in bulk at the shop, we get a truck that fills our 500 gallon tank with dex3/mercon, this is a good quality name brand fluid. We get drums of fluid, this is mercon V and ATF +4. We also get fluid in quarts and 5 gallon pails. I have over 20 different spec. fluid and oils in my shop and I am very careful to look up every vehicle to apply the proper fluid to the proper application. Unfortunately, Most shops are not like me. They do not do the research to find that "Universal" fluid is really not universal. They hear the salesman say it meets or exceeds the need and forget the man is trying to make a sale. These salesman run screaming and holding their ears from my shop, my daddy taught me about "Sizzle" and how salesman work. I may have even lost a few good deals because they looked too good to be true. I do not sell sizzle when I talk to my customers but I do explain the benefits of dealing with me over my competition and most of them seem to get that. I charge more per hour than even some of the Dealers around here and have no difficulty getting it. I look at the customers car as if it were mine and would I be happy with the work done. If it passes that test then we have no problems. The point I am trying to make the hard way here is, it's the repair facility that makes the difference between putting regular Mercon inside your Honda or chrysler, not the other way around. The guy selling the flushing machine tells the owner that this fluid will work in all applications and he is foolish enough to believe. The thing is, except for a few applications the fluid will work.... for a while. Long enough that the customer won't remember that "Joe's shop" did the flush and now I have a trans problem. It just won't do the job that the trans needs it to do and long term kills the trans. Universal fluid is very cheap too, so I make big profits and you won't be able to pin it on me. That is the way they see it, if they aren't ignorant of what they are doing. Hope this answered some of your questions about Barrel Oil. Transman